25

I'm currently a first year student in electrical engineering and computer science. I know how to compute limits, derivatives, integrals with respect to one variable that is things from one variable calculus (mathematics 1). In mathematics 2 we're currently working on series (convergent, divergent, integral criteria, D'Alemberts criteria, Cauchy criteria, absolute convergence ...). English is not my mother tongue, so forgive me I spell something wrong or have grammar mistakes. I'll try to explain my questions as best as I can. I have multiple questions, but they are all intertwined. Since all these things "need" limits, they are my main confusion.

  1. I understand the intuition behind the limit and the epsilon-delta definition, but why it works in practice. That is why can I say when computing the derivative of for example $x^2$ is $2x$? In $\lim_{\Delta x \rightarrow 0} \frac{f(x + \Delta x) - f(x)}{\Delta x}$ I can't just put $0$ since I would get $\frac{0}{0}$, which would be the "true" derivative, because I don't know what that is. After some manipulation I would get $\lim_{\Delta x \rightarrow 0} 2x + \Delta x$ and since $\Delta x$ goes to $0$ that would be equal to $2x$. But this $\Delta x$ will never be $0$, at least as I look at this and from the definition of the limit it would say that I can make $\Delta x$ as close to $0$, but not equal to, if I'm willing to make $x_1$ and $x_2$ as close to each other. Why can I now take this $2x$ and say for instance that the derivative of someone's position it time is $2x$ that is its velocity is $2x$ and not $2x +$ some small $\Delta x$?

  2. When trying to see if an infinite series (which never ends) converges or diverges why can I look at a sequence of partial sums (infinite) of that series and based on their convergence or divergence say if the whole series diverges or converges?

  3. When I come to professors and ask these and such questions they tell me why am I bothering my self with such question and that I should take it for granted. Then I just want to kill my self. I mean haven't I came here to study how and why things work? I would like it more if they would just tell me that if it is some "higher" or more complex part of mathematics and that I will learn about it later or that it just isn't know why it works the way it works. So should I even continue to study these things, since I will always come across something that I wouldn't be able to understand (since these "basic" limits are confusing me) and all these professors and academia will tell me that I shouldn't worry why it works the way it works and that I should just take it for granted.

  4. All the theorems used to proof derivative, integral, convergence, divergence etc. use in one way or another limits. But in the definition of the limit it says that I can make some $f(x)$ as close to some value L, but not equal to it, as long as I'm willing to make $x$ as close to some value $c$. This definition is supposed to be mathematical rigorous, but using these as close don't "look" rigorous to me.

Please help me since I don't know should I even continue with my studies since there is always some mathematical proof which I cannot understand and is preventing me to go forward and that way I'm always lacking behind and everybody expects to understand everything the first time I hear it. I will be grateful for all comments and suggestions.

Nick
  • 961
  • I recommend you to edit the equations of your text using LaTeX (put it between dollarsigns $ ... $) to make it much easier to read. – naslundx Mar 16 '14 at 20:33
  • I can't understand your question without proper formatting...2. We can do this because the pattern of the sum is unlikely to change and it is easier to analyze it too. 3. I think they meant to say "it will be explored in another class". 4. This link http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2009/02/28/tricks-wiki-give-yourself-an-epsilon-of-room/ may help you.
  • – qqo Mar 16 '14 at 20:34
  • @Nameless Thank you for your comment and link. But when you say unlikely, shouldn't that be somehow proven that it wouldn't change? And how it can proven since it is an infinite series? It never stops and if you try to prove something you have to do it with something that is finite. At least the way I see it. – Nick Mar 16 '14 at 20:49
  • For instance consider the sequence ${ (-1)^n }$, it's always going to be $-1$ or $1$, "at infinity" it isn't going to change either. That's what I mean – qqo Mar 16 '14 at 23:41
  • 5
    If you're interested in getting at the heart of the matter, perhaps a career in pure mathematics would suit you better than your current degree. I personally moved from physics over to math and eventually into pure math for precisely these reasons. – goblin GONE Mar 25 '14 at 14:37
  • 7
    Why are studying electrical engineering and computer science then? You have the mind of a pure mathematician. Your professors talk to you like that because they're presumably not pure mathematicians. In applied maths fields like compsci, physics, engineering, they don't care about rigorous proof, they just use mathematics, and assume it works because they trust mathematicians. – user85798 Mar 27 '14 at 12:43
  • @Nick: I suggest you to read Hardy's Course of Pure Mathematics (all is amazing but specifically the section of limits). Hardy give us, in my humble opinion, the most beautiful and enlightening explanation of limits that I've seen so far. – Jose Antonio Mar 28 '14 at 18:10
  • @JoseAntonio Can you please give a link on a version which you have since I have found 2 of them on amazon.com. – Nick Mar 28 '14 at 18:16
  • 1
    @Nick: The book is free on archive.org: https://archive.org/details/courseofpuremath00hardrich – Jose Antonio Mar 28 '14 at 18:26
  • 2
    Hardy's book is also available gratis and typeset in LaTeX (with modernized notation) from Project Gutenberg, or in HTML from the Sayahna Foundation. – Andrew D. Hwang Mar 28 '14 at 21:15
  • It seems like you are mistaking a limit as a value of a function. For example, for $2x+\Delta x$ never has the "value" $2x$ for $\Delta x\ne 0$. But its limit is $0$; this is a completely separate concept. – Alex Becker Mar 31 '14 at 07:25
  • In one comment you write "Why it works in practice when people build machines, cars, electronic devices ...?" Are you perhaps more interested in asking "How/why is the mathematical concept of limit useful in engineering applications" rather than "How/why the mathematical concept of limit works in mathematics?"? – Juho Kokkala Mar 31 '14 at 11:59
  • @JuhoKokkala Yes, you can put it that way. – Nick Mar 31 '14 at 12:50
  • @Nick: people here seem to be answering the second question rather than the first. The first one is also interesting, maybe you should formulate and post it as a separate question (although it might be offtopic in math.SE, not sure what would be a better place). – Juho Kokkala Mar 31 '14 at 14:11
  • @JuhoKokkala The question "How/why the mathematical concept of limit works in mathematics?" is also interesting to me and it underlies the things I'm asking. I understand the definition of the limit and how to use it and think that I understand how it works. What is "bothering" me is why is it defined that way? Why it works in mathematics/engineering...? – Nick Mar 31 '14 at 14:18
  • @OJB "Inferior subjects"? – Michael Greinecker Apr 01 '14 at 05:45
  • I think the confusion here (as with claims that $.99 \dots < 1$ when both sides are interpreted as real numbers as usual) is thinking of a limit as a process. While one might view the limit as being determined by a process (the quantifier game), the outcome is a completed infinity, a single entity. – Vandermonde Oct 09 '15 at 05:34
  • Actually, single entity as must be the case. We speak of a limit being or equalling something, and you can't meaningfully write a relation with, say, several objects on one side. (Things like writing $x=0,1$ for the roots of $x^2+x$ are actually directing one to consider some number of cases, kind of like quantifiers do.) Of course sets can equal things, but the whole point of a set is to collect objects into a single one. – Vandermonde Oct 09 '15 at 05:57
  • I think this 'single entity' mindset may also have something to do with why $\sqrt{\cdot}$ is traditionally defined as a (single-valued) function $\mathbb{R}^+ \to \mathbb{R}^+$ (which may be a source of confusion that induces some to think $x^2 = 1$ has one solution in $\mathbb{R}$) rather than a multi-valued one. It could also have been considered as a single-valued function $\mathbb{R} \to \mathcal{P} ( \mathbb{R} )$, but I guess the reason it wasn't is that single numbers are more attractive in some sense and/or to some people than sets (like how the mean, which minimises – Vandermonde Dec 01 '15 at 03:04
  • the expected squared error, is by far more popular than the median, which minimises the expected absolute error for which regression would require linear programming as opposed to elementary methods, likely because (in spite of all the median's virtues, relative robustness, etc.) if the mean exists, it is guaranteed to be unique). By the way, $x = 0,1$ in the previous comment should have been $x = 0,-1$. – Vandermonde Dec 01 '15 at 03:04