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Follow up to this question. I am reading this paper. In the proof of Theorem 2.1, second paragraph, the Author says:

We are in a group, so we can simplify with respect to the group law ”◦”.

and goes ahead by:

$x_n^{\circ m}=x_q^{\circ p}\Leftrightarrow x_n^{\circ mq}=x_q^{\circ pq}$

($n,m,p,q\in\mathbb{N}^+$).

To my understanding, this is: $$ x = y \Longleftrightarrow x^n = y^n $$ for $x,y$ in a group and $n\in\mathbb{N}^+$. Is this really true as it is stated? I tried to prove it and failed, and could not find a proof by googling. Please note that the actual group of interest in the Theorem is, from the claim:

a non-trivial complete totally ordered Abelian group which is dense in itself

Enrico
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  • @JoséCarlosSantos The OP is asking about a totally ordered group. – Ethan Bolker Jun 06 '25 at 17:34
  • That is certainly not true, there are counterexamples in every non-trivial finite group. Are you sure that these are the only conditions in the paper? – Qi Zhu Jun 06 '25 at 17:35
  • @QiZhu I don't see other conditions in that specific theorem. They are trying to construct a morphism from $\mathbb{Q}$ (additive) to the group in object, and want to prove that their definition is well done. – Enrico Jun 06 '25 at 17:38
  • BTW the paper is open source, if you want to have a look. – Enrico Jun 06 '25 at 17:39
  • Your quantifiers are not clear. Is tis meant to hold for all $n$? Just for a particular $n$ ? It makes a big difference. $1^2=(-1)^2$ for instance. – lulu Jun 06 '25 at 17:47
  • @lulu I have tried to expose it as it is in the paper. To my understanding, they claim this for any $x,y$ in a group and $n\in\mathbb{N}^+$. Actually they apply the result to a totally ordered group, so probably they should have used the property exposed in the answer here below instead. – Enrico Jun 06 '25 at 17:52
  • $x_n$ is the unique solution of the equation $x^{\circ n}=u$ in $G$, where $u\in G$ and $n\in\mathbb{N}^+$ are fixed. – Enrico Jun 06 '25 at 17:53
  • Quantifiers matter. If the claim is to hold for all natural numbers $n$, then in particular it holds for $n=1$ so one direction is trivial. The other direction is also trivial as $x=y$ means that $f(x)=f(y)$ for all functions $f$. But if you meant it for just a particular, unspecified $n$, then the claim is false. – lulu Jun 06 '25 at 17:55
  • @lulu Just to try to make it fully clear: $u$ fixed in $G$ (unspecified), $n,q$ fixed in $\mathbb{N}^+$ (both unspecified), $x_n$ and $x_q$ solutions to the equation in my previous comment; $m,p$ fixed in $\mathbb{N}^+$ (both unspecified) with $m/n=p/q$; the claim is $x_n^{\circ m}=x_q^{\circ p}$. Then they proceed as I have reported in my question. – Enrico Jun 06 '25 at 18:05
  • It seems like there is a lot of context missing in $x_n,x_q.$ The answer to your general question is "no." What they are saying in the example might require some context. – Thomas Andrews Jun 06 '25 at 18:31

1 Answers1

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It's not true exactly as stated: if the group is not torsion-free (for example, any finite group), then it's false: if $x^n = e$ then $x^n = e^n$.

For torsion-free abelian groups it's true: if $x^n = y^n$ then $(xy^{-1})^n = e$, torsion-free implies $xy^{-1} = e$ and so $x = y$.

Ordered groups are necessary torsion-free: if, for example, $x > e$ then also $x^n = x\cdot x^{n-1} > e \cdot x^{n - 1} = x \cdot x^{n - 2} > \ldots > e$, so $x^n \neq e$, similarly if $x < e$ then $x^n \neq e$.

mihaild
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  • Please strive not to post more (dupe) answers to dupes of FAQs. This is enforced site policy, see here. – Bill Dubuque Jun 06 '25 at 17:46
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    @BillDubuque The answer came before the question got marked as duplicate. Also the supposed similar question has a completely different title so it's not that easy to catch it up by googling (which I did before posting my own question). – Enrico Jun 06 '25 at 17:56
  • @Enrico It is very easy to find dupe targets here, e,g. search using keywords torsion-free ordered group. See here for how to search. That the answer was posted before closure is no excuse- see the linked meta thread. – Bill Dubuque Jun 06 '25 at 19:16
  • I am aware about "don't answer to duplicates" rule, but I don't think that this question is duplicate to the one you linked. – mihaild Jun 06 '25 at 20:48
  • @BillDubuque I didn't know that what I needed was a torsion-free group! – Enrico Jun 06 '25 at 21:53
  • @Enrico My comments are on the answer, not the question. Thee answerer did know that. – Bill Dubuque Jun 07 '25 at 00:03