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Is this definition of $dy$ $$dy = \lim_{(dx)^2 \to 0} f(x+dx) - f(x)$$ equivalent to $$\frac{dy}{dx} = \lim_{h \to 0} \frac{f(x+h) - f(x)}{h}$$ If so, why? Do we need these definitions together? I came up with the first definition myself, as it seemed to hold with what I've learnt so far.

If you try the first definition for $y = f(x) = x^2$, we get $$dy = \lim_{(dx)^2 \to 0} (x+dx)^2 - x^2 \\= \lim_{(dx)^2 \to 0} x^2 +2xdx + (dx)^2 - x^2 \\= \lim_{(dx)^2 \to 0} 2xdx + (dx)^2 = 2xdx$$

Edit: I understand how we get $dy/dx$ but not how we get $dy$.

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    The first definition doesn't make sense. If $f$ is continuous, then this would just make $dy=0$ – Lorago Dec 05 '24 at 11:16
  • @Lorago The way I rationalized this was if you take $f(x) = x^2$ then you get what you would normally get. –  Dec 05 '24 at 11:18
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    No, if you take $f(x)=x^2$, then$$dy=\lim_{(dx)^2\to0}(x+dx)^2-x^2=x^2-x^2=0$$ – Lorago Dec 05 '24 at 11:20
  • @Lorago But why don't we expand first? –  Dec 05 '24 at 11:25
  • We could, but then still $$dy=\lim_{(dx)^2\to0}(x+dx)^2-x^2=\lim_{(dx)^2\to0}(x^2+2xdx+(dx)^2-x^2)=\lim_{(dx)^2\to0}(2xdx+(dx)^2)=2x\cdot0+0^2=0$$ – Lorago Dec 05 '24 at 11:32
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    If $(dx)^2\to0$, then $dx\to0$ – Lorago Dec 05 '24 at 11:35
  • @Lorago But, intuitutively, doesn't $dx$ approach $0$ at a slower rate than $(dx)$? I don't understand. –  Dec 05 '24 at 11:45
  • Indeed it does, but that doesn't change the fact that they both to to zero – Lorago Dec 05 '24 at 11:46
  • @Lorago So $dy$ cannot be defined before defining $\frac{dy}{dx}$? How would we? If we move $dx$ to the other side when we have the derivative, wouldn't that be kind of like dividing by $0$? –  Dec 05 '24 at 11:49
  • Your definition of $\mathrm dy$ seems to be applicable only for polynomial functions. – Integreek Dec 05 '24 at 12:23
  • Instead, think of $\mathrm dy$ as the corresponding (very small) change in $y$ caused by a very small change in $\mathrm dx$ which is close to $0$, but not exactly $0$. Do not confuse this with $\lim_{h\to0}h$(which is exactly $0$). – Integreek Dec 05 '24 at 12:24
  • @MathGuy Can it be $\lim_{h^2 \to 0} h$ instead? –  Dec 05 '24 at 12:46
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    Does your "definition" rely on $(dx)^2\to 0$ but $dx\not\to 0,?$ If so: it is complete hocus pocus. – Kurt G. Dec 05 '24 at 12:53
  • @AkshajMishra both limits evaluate to zero, so what you wrote is not anything different. – Integreek Dec 05 '24 at 12:57
  • Now I feel stupid –  Dec 05 '24 at 12:58
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    Can I just take it as a ratio then like the question that people suggested me? –  Dec 05 '24 at 12:59
  • @AkshajMishra don't feel stupid, even I faced this problem. I understand where this confusion is coming from, namely abuse of the notation $\frac{\mathrm dy}{\mathrm dx}$ can be really confusing for a beginner in calculus where $\frac{\mathrm d}{\mathrm dx}$ is first introduced as a notation for the derivative and then in integration, $\frac{\mathrm dy}{\mathrm dx}$ is treated as a fraction. As long as we are not delving very deep into differentials and all, you can treat $\mathrm dx$ in the same way as $\Delta x$, the difference being that $\mathrm d$ denotes a very, very very small change. – Integreek Dec 05 '24 at 12:59
  • @KurtG I understood that –  Dec 05 '24 at 12:59

1 Answers1

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As noticed in the comments, your first definition doesn't make sense. But don't worry, the fact that you thought that definition made sense is symptomatic of the way most people think about $dy$, as being an "infinitesimal diference in $y$".

The rigorous definition of $dy$ goes like this. First, let $y: \mathbb{R} \rightarrow \mathbb{R}$ be a differentiable function. Then, by definition, at $x \in \mathbb{R}$, the following limit exists and is called the derivative at x: $$\frac{dy}{dx}=\lim_{h\rightarrow0} \frac{y(x+h)-y(x)}{h}$$

Now, for simplicity denote the same limit as $y'(x)$. We want to express the above equality as an equality between the finite difference $y(x+h)-y(x)$ and the derivative, and not between it and the limit of the incremental quotient. The way to do this is to write $$y'(x)=\frac{y(x+h)-y(x)}{h}+r_x(h)$$

Where $r_x(h)$ is some remainder function that goes to zero as $h$ goes to zero. Intuitively, all you're saying is that if two quantities approach each other, then their difference, $r_x(h)$ must approach zero.

Now we define $o(h)$ to be any function that goes to zero faster than linearly (i.e $o(h)/h\rightarrow 0$), and thus we may write $$y(x+h)-y(x)=y'(x)h+o(h)$$

It is also costumary to write this as $$\Delta y[h]=dy[h]+o(h)$$

Where $\Delta y[h]=y(x+h)-y(x)$ and we omit the point $x$ from the notation, since it is being fixed. We'll go over in a moment why this notation is good. But first, notice that the definition of $o(h)$ will absorb any quadratic terms or higher order terms since these are functions that go to zero faster than $h$. This justifies the (physicist-like) intuition that a differential is a "small difference" and that a "small difference" means ignoring quadratic terms and beyong (likely the reason why you came up with $(\Delta x)^2\rightarrow 0$), because all like terms won't end up in $dy$ but rather in $o(h)$ in the above expression.

Now, why is this good notation? In one dimension, it's a bit hard to justify, but it has to do with linear algebra.

First, we remark that the expression $dy[h]=y'(x)h$ is a linear function of $h$. Then we could write $dy=y'(x)\cdot\_$, meaning, $dy(x)$ is the linear map that gives multiplication by the number $y'(x)$. But there's another way to write it. Let $x$ be the identity map $x \mapsto x$, with a slight abuse of notation. Then, notice that $$x+h-x=h=h+0$$ and $0=o(h)$. Hence the derivative of $x$ is $1$ (unsurprisingly) and we may write $dx[h]=1\cdot\_$.

But then, with all this notation, we can write $dy[h]=y'(x)\cdot h=y'(x)\cdot 1\cdot h=y'(x)dx[h]$, or more compactly, $dy=y'(x)dx$.

This is the correct definition of the differential. To state it clearly, the differential of a function $y$ is the function that, to any point $x$, gives the linear map $dy(x)=y'(x)dx$, which applied to an increment $h$, based on $x$, gives (up to quadratic order) the variation of $y$ on that increment.

To summarize,

  1. the differential is not a small difference
  2. quadratic terms get ignored because the differential is a linear approximation map
  3. The two definitions (derivative and differential) are equivalent in the sence that the action of the differential at the point $x$ is to multiply the increment by the derivative of $y$ at $x$; hence there is a one to one correspondence between $dy(x)$ and $y'(x)$
J.G.
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Lourenco Entrudo
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