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I asked a similar question here, but was quickly told that my hypotheses were not strong enough, so I am asking a new question with the correct hypothesises.

Let $X$ be a projective scheme over $A$, that is $X=\operatorname{Proj}R$, where $R$ is a graded ring with $R_0=A$. We also take $R$ to be finitely generated as an $A$ algebra, i.e. equivalently the irrelevant ideal $R_+$ is a finitely generated ideal. (As secondary question, is there some condition on $X$ as a scheme, which is maybe stronger, that forces $R_+$ to be finitely generated? Quasi-compactness is not strong enough as this only implies the irrelevant ideal is the radical of a finitely generated ideal... perhaps a Noetherian condition on $X$?)

With the above (hopefully strong enough hypotheses) I want to show that there exists a closed embedding $X\hookrightarrow\mathbb P^n_A$ for some $m$. Since $R$ is a finitely generated $A$ algebra, we have that $R\cong A[x_0,\dots, x_n]/I$ for some ideal $I$. If I can show that $I$ is homogenous then we have that $\operatorname{Proj} R=\operatorname{Proj}A[x_0,\dots, x_n]/I\cong \mathbb V(I)\subset \mathbb P^n_A$, and so we are done.

However, I see no reason why $I$ can't be homogenous, and $R$ is equipped with some grading which does not come from $A$. So to some up, my two questions are: is there a reason $I$ should be homogenous? Is there a condition on $X$ that forces the irrelevant ideal to be finitely generated?

KReiser
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Chris
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1 Answers1

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If $r_1,\cdots,r_n$ generate $R_+$ as an ideal of $R$, and $r_i=\sum_{j=1}^{m_i} r_{ij}$ for $\deg r_{ij} = j$ is the decomposition in to homogeneous parts, then $r_{11},\cdots,r_{1m_1},\cdots,r_{nm_n}$ form a homogeneous generating set for $R_+$ and so $R_+$ is finitely generated as a homogeneous ideal.

But the fun's not done: given a homogeneous generating set for $R_+$, it may not be the case that all of these generators are in degree 1. Instead, we may need to pass to a Veronese subring $R^{(d)}=\bigoplus_{n\geq 0} R_{dn}$ for some $d$. This can always be done in such a way that $R^{(d)}$ is finitely generated as a graded ring by its degree-one piece (ref) and we also have $\operatorname{Proj} R\cong \operatorname{Proj} R^{(d)}$ (see for instance here). From here, you can choose a graded surjection $A[x_0,\cdots,x_N]\to R^{(d)}$ with all $x_i$ in degree one, and this will get you the closed immersion you're after.


There's still more fun to be had in addressing your secondary question. In fact, one can show that Proj of a graded ring is only determined by what happens in large enough degrees (see here). So you can't force that $R_+$ is finitely generated - for instance, if I altered some perfectly nice graded ring $R$ with $R_0=A$ by replacing its degree one piece by $R_1\oplus M$ for some infinitely-generated $A$-module $M$ and declared the multiplication on this new $R$ to be that $a\cdot m = am$ for $a\in A=R_0$ while $r_dm=0$ for any $r_d$ homogeneous of positive degree, I'd still get the same Proj but now I have a non-finitely-generated $R_+$.

KReiser
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  • Just to be explicit; your first part is stating that for any graded ring $R$ finitely generated over $A$ we can always take take $R$ to be generated in degree ring if all we care about is the induced $\operatorname{Proj}$ scheme? And does your second part imply that if $X$ is of the form $\operatorname{Proj}R$ there is no condition on $X$ which doesn't make reference to $R$ which guarantees that $X$ embeds into $\mathbb P^n_A$? – Chris Nov 12 '24 at 07:26
  • The first part says that given a graded ring which is finitely generated, it can be finitely generated as a graded ring. Then, up to taking a Veronese subring (which does not change Proj), we can get a graded ring which is finitely generated by elements of homogeneous degree one. This lets us construct a closed immersion in to projective space. The last part after the horizontal separator addresses your "secondary question" from the main post which appears in a parenthetical: there's no way to guarantee $R$ is finitely generated if you only know its Proj. – KReiser Nov 12 '24 at 07:33
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    I'm not sure of an exhaustive list of what's actually needed or equivalent to $\operatorname{Proj} R$ admits a closed immersion in to $\Bbb P^n_A$. Finitely generated in degree one works; has a Veronese subring which is finitely generated in degree one works; etc. These are good enough for most things most of the time, and pointing out that there's a fair amount of stuff you can do here can usually give you the tools to decide if a specific proj has a closed immersion to projective space. – KReiser Nov 12 '24 at 07:39