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I was trying to convert a simple (true) proposition concerning the real numbers to Prenex Normal Form but arrived at a logical statement that didn't appear equivalent to what I started with.

The proposition I began with:

If two real numbers $a,b$ can get arbitrarily close to one another, then they are equal.

As a logical formula:

if $|a-b|<ε$ for all $ε>0$, then $a=b$.

Entirely with logical symbols:

$ (∀ε>0, (|a-b|<ε)) ⇒ (a=b) $

This logical statement appears identical in meaning to the original proposition above.

Now I perform the following steps to convert this to Prenex Normal Form (PNF) by applying the instructions in https://www.csd.uwo.ca/~lkari/prenex.pdf.

  1. Eliminate occurrences of conditionals and biconditionals from the formula. This means removing the $⇒$ symbol in this situation.

    Applying the fact $(p⇒q) ⇔ (¬p∨q)$ gives:

    $ ¬(∀ε>0, (|a-b|<ε)) ∨ (a=b) $

    Observe that the conditional is removed.

  2. Move all negations inwards so that negations only appear as part of literals.

    There's only one negation to move and moving it inwards gives:

    $ (∃ε>0, ¬(|a-b|<ε)) ∨ (a=b) $

  3. The PNF can now be obtained by moving all quantifiers to the front.

    So we just have to shift the existential quantifier outside and we're done:

    $ ∃ε>0, ( ¬(|a-b|<ε) ∨ (a=b) ) $

    Observe that the formula that comes after the existential quantifier can be rewritten as a conditional since it's in the "$(¬p∨q)$" form. Rewriting the formula as a conditional gives:

    $ ∃ε>0, ( (|a-b|<ε) ⇒ (a=b) ) $

In English, this may be read as:

"There exists a positive real number, call it ε, such that if the absolute difference between and is at most ε, then and are equal."

However, this result does not appear equivalent to the original proposition I began with:

If two real numbers , can get arbitrarily close to one another, then they are equal.

Following @mjqxxxx's suggestion to try making $∀,∈$ and $ε$'s dependency on $a$ and $b$ explicit in the PNF formula gives:

"For all real numbers ,, there exists a positive ε that possibly depends on , , such that if the absolute difference between and is at most ε, then and are equal."

However, this description still reads as being distinct from the original proposition. :(


Update: Following the links @NaïmFavier provided, I was able to proof the PNF formula with a strategy used in Smullyan's proof of the Drinking Principle.

Proof ($\quad$$∃ε>0 ( (|−|<ε) ⇒ (=) )$ is True.$\quad$):

There are two cases to consider: either $a=b$, or $a$ and $b$ differ by some amount – i.e., $a=b+ε_0$.

Case 1 ($a=b$): The consequent of the implication is true. By the fact that a true proposition is implied by any proposition, the implication we want to prove holds regardless of whether the antecedent "$|a-b|≤ε$" is true/false.

Case 2 ($a$ and $b$ differ): Suppose that $a=b+ε_0$ for some $ε_0 ∈ \mathbf{R}$. Letting $ε := ε_0$ makes the antecedent "$|a-b|<ε_0$" false. By the fact that a false proposition implies any proposition, the implication holds.

$\square$


Related phrases: drinker's paradox, drinker paradox, drinker's theorem, Smullyan's Drinker's principle, Raymond Smullyan's "What Is the Name of this Book?"

  • The reference does not have expressions of the form ∃ε>0. You have not followed the reference. (∃ε>0(p) means ∃ε((ε>0)∧(p)).) – philipxy May 14 '24 at 20:51
  • @philipxy And $\forall \epsilon > 0, P(\epsilon)$ means $\forall \epsilon, \epsilon > 0 \to P(\epsilon)$, so the negation of $\forall \epsilon > 0, P(\epsilon)$ is $\exists \epsilon > 0, \neg P(\epsilon)$. The translation to prenex form is correct. – Naïm Camille Favier May 14 '24 at 20:59
  • @NaïmFavier What I said was that they did not follow the reference. So they have no reason to expect a correct result. And they do not understand the reference. (You explained why their incorrect actions happen to give the correct result.) – philipxy May 14 '24 at 21:04
  • @philipxy Thanks for weighing in. What do you mean by "reference"? – eliza1024 May 15 '24 at 16:14
  • "I perform the following steps to convert this to Prenex Normal Form (PNF) by applying the instructions in https://www.csd.uwo.ca/~lkari/prenex.pdf" – philipxy May 15 '24 at 18:45
  • Please put answers into answer posts, not question posts. Although it's not clear how a demonstration that the result is correct is answer to why you think it "reads strange"--whatever that means & whatever you are more meaningfully trying to ask. Although there isn't actually a question in this post. PS Please don't insert "EDIT"s/"UPDATE"s, just make your post the best presentation as of edit time. When is "EDIT"/"UPDATE" appropriate in a post? – philipxy May 15 '24 at 18:54

2 Answers2

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It is equivalent, and your confusion is called the drinker's paradox (where "$x$ drinks" means "$|a - b| < x$").

If $a = b$, then you can pick any $\epsilon > 0$ and the statement will hold because $a = b$ is true. If $a \neq b$, then $|a - b| \neq 0$, hence you can pick $\epsilon = |a - b|$ and the statement will hold because $|a - b| < \epsilon$ is false.

Amusingly, I recently saw something very similar to this question formulated as a puzzle on Tim Gower's blog: https://gowers.wordpress.com/2013/12/09/a-little-paradox/

  • Thanks for weighing in. The links you shared were very helpful. I was able to proof the PNF formula in my question, $∃ε>0 ((|−|<ε)⇒(=))$ through a strategy similar to the proof of the Drinking Principle. I will update my initial post to include this proof.

    Although I view this as progress, I still am unable to convince myself that the PNF formula is expressing the same thing as the original proposition.

    – eliza1024 May 15 '24 at 16:32
  • @user14111 While I'd like to thank you for taking the time to comment, I can't help but feel that your comment isn't quite helpful in this situation. I don't think I'd be the only one that's perplexed by the seeming inequivalence of the PNF formula and the original proposition – backing me up on this is Gover's exposition on this exact equivalence (https://gowers.wordpress.com/2013/12/09/a-little-paradox/). (Thanks Favier) (continued ...) – eliza1024 May 16 '24 at 07:12
  • @eliza1024 Mea culpa. My hasty comment, besides being unhelpful, was posted as a comment on an answer when it was meant as a comment on the question. – user14111 May 16 '24 at 07:22
  • @user14111 (continued...) The lively comments section in the Gower's article linked reveals many a different answer to this seeming inequivalence of the original proposition and the PNF form. By the sheer diversity and quantity of responses there, I don't think this equivalence is, as you say, "obviously equivalent". – eliza1024 May 16 '24 at 07:33
  • @eliza1024 I think you may find some of the answers here helpful. – user14111 May 16 '24 at 07:51
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It's equivalent to the original statement. The reason it reads strangely (which is somewhat subjective, but I agree that it does) may be that it's not immediately apparent that $\varepsilon$ can (must) depend on $a$ and $b$. On a casual reading, the sentence seems to be mainly talking about some inherently special value of $\varepsilon$. Putting an explicit $\forall a \forall b$ in front seems (again, subjectively) to more clearly indicate that the statement is made in the context of a particular $a$ and $b$, and much of the strangeness goes away.

mjqxxxx
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  • Thanks for the suggestion. Adding $∀a∀b$ in front, and making explicit $ε$'s dependence on $a$ and $b$ results in the formula: $∀a,b∈\mathbf{R} , ∃ε(a,b)>0, ( (|−|<ε)⇒(=) )$. Describing this in English results in: For all real numbers $a$,$b$, there exists a positive $ε$ that possibly depends on $a$, $b$, such that if the absolute difference between $a$ and $b$ is at most $ε$, then $a$ and $b$ are equal.

    (continued below)

    – eliza1024 May 15 '24 at 17:02
  • (continuation)

    I can't help but feel that the English description isn't representative of the original proposition that "If two real numbers $a$,$b$ can get arbitrarily close to one another, then they are equal."

    Any help would be appreciated. :)

    – eliza1024 May 15 '24 at 17:04
  • This might be a case of "in mathematics you don't understand things, you just become used to them". If you understand why each sentence implies the other one, you know all there is to know about this. – Naïm Camille Favier May 15 '24 at 18:04