16

The vertices of a pentagram are five uniformly random points on a circle. The areas of three consecutive triangular "petals" are $a,b,c$. The petals are randomly chosen, but they must be consecutive, either clockwise or anticlockwise.

enter image description here

A simulation of $10^7$ such random pentagrams yielded a proportion of $0.5000179$ satisfying $a^2<bc$.

Is the following conjecture true: $P(a^2<bc)=\frac{1}{2}$

Remarks

Note that the three petals must be consecutive. Calling the areas of consecutive petals $a,b,c,d,e$, simulations suggest that:

  • $P(a^2<bd)\approx0.468$
  • $P(a^2<be)\approx0.505$
  • $P(a^2<cd)\approx0.460$

Curiously, the probability that seems to equal $\frac{1}{2}$, i.e. $P(a^2<bc)$, does not involve a symmetrical arrangement of three petals.

As for other random star polygons $\{\frac{n}{2}\}$ inscribed in a circle, simulations suggest that

  • Star polygon $\left\{\frac{6}{2}\right\}$: $P(a^2<bc)\approx0.505$.
  • Star polygon $\{\frac{7}{2}\}$: $P(a^2<bc)\approx0.504$.

I used the shoelace formula to calculate the areas of the triangular petals.

One might expect that a probability of $\frac12$ should have an intuitive explanation, but sometimes probabilities of $\frac12$ are hard to explain.

Underlying reason?

Simulations suggest that the random pentagram/pentagon shape is teeming with probabilities of powers of $\frac12$. In the following diagram, the letters represent areas of the regions.

enter image description here

  • $P(g+b+h<a+f+c)\overset{?}{=}\color{red}{\frac{1}{2}}$
  • $P(g+h<f)\overset{?}{=}\color{red}{\frac{1}{4}}$
  • $P((g+a+k)(h+c+i)>(b+f+e+d+j)^2)\overset{?}{=}\color{red}{\frac{1}{8}}$
  • $P(\text{each region with area $g,b,f,l$ contains the centre of the circle})=\color{red}{\frac{1}{16}}$ (proved)
  • $P(\text{areas of petals increase going around once, clockwise or anticlockwise})\overset{?}{=}\color{red}{\frac{1}{32}}$

I am not asking to prove these other probability claims. I am presenting them to suggest that there may be an underlying reason why the pentagram has probabilities of powers of $\frac12$, which may be relevant to my conjecture. These simulations make me more inclined to believe that my conjecture is true, but I could be wrong.

Dan
  • 35,053
  • 1
    What is exactly a? Which triangle? – van der Wolf Apr 18 '24 at 08:56
  • @vanderWolf $a$ is the area of a randomly chosen triangular ray of the pentagram. – Dan Apr 18 '24 at 08:57
  • 1
    This is exactly my question; a ray is a line and hence has no area. Maybe you can denote the points on the picture and explain which triangle (?) do you mean. – van der Wolf Apr 18 '24 at 09:18
  • 1
    I though for a moment that it might be that $a^2<bc \iff a^2>de$, because that would immediately give the result by a symmetry argument. However, that cannot be true since you could have $a$ be the smallest triangle which has $a^2<bc, a^2<de$. – Jaap Scherphuis Apr 18 '24 at 09:29
  • 2
    It is also not true that the 10 possible inequalities between $a,b,c,d,e$ always split exactly in half if you use any 5 positive numbers for the areas, so if the probability in question is exactly half, then it really has to be due to the relationship imposed on them by the geomety of the pentagram and circle. – Jaap Scherphuis Apr 18 '24 at 11:19
  • As an aside, questions with open bounties can not be closed. I see this question as legitimate but I should probably come back to flag it as needing improvement in a couple hours. – theREALyumdub Apr 27 '24 at 23:59
  • 1
    @theREALyumdub How can it be improved? – Dan Apr 28 '24 at 00:02
  • @Dan Looking back, it looks like you have asked a littany of mathematical questions involving probabilties of $ P(x) = \frac{1}{2} $, geometric shapes inscribed in circles, and other oddities. While I deem all of these questions to be somewhat interesting, there is also a point where they become off topic, too. – theREALyumdub Apr 28 '24 at 00:06
  • Perhaps you could break up the latter (edited) section into a different question. – theREALyumdub Apr 28 '24 at 00:07
  • 2
    @theREALyumdub Why do they become off topic? (I want to include the edited part in this question, because it suggests that the there may be an underlying reason why the pentagram has probabilities of powers of $\frac12$, which is relevant to this question.) – Dan Apr 28 '24 at 00:09
  • 1
    @Eric I felt my answer was kind of unhelpful so I deleted it. I just feel that questions of this nature aren't really appropriate for the site if they've been asked several times, and the OP shows difficulty grappling with them (perhaps there could be a place to discuss this more accurately, but Q&A doesn't really do it justice, I'm not sure of another.) – theREALyumdub Apr 28 '24 at 04:14
  • See here: https://math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/35771/whats-the-deal-with-closing-what-are-some-conjectures-of-your-own – theREALyumdub Apr 28 '24 at 04:14
  • 1
    Posted at MO. – Dan Apr 28 '24 at 05:48

1 Answers1

10

TL;DR: Simulation with larger sample-sizes effectively shows $P(a^2<bc)<{1\over 2}.$

EDIT: Although sample-size $10^{10}$ was adequate, I've updated to show the results for $10^{11}$.

For $p:=P(a^2<bc),$ your simulation with sample-size $n=10^7$ gave you an observed proportion $\hat p=0.5000179,$ so an approximate confidence interval with a $99.9\%$ "confidence level" is $$\hat p\pm 3.29\,\sqrt{\hat p(1-\hat p)\over n}=(0.4995, 0.5005).$$

Although ${1\over 2}$ does lie in this interval, the interval only estimates $p$ to about three digits of precision. Simulation using larger sample-size suggests -- with the same very high level of confidence/credibility -- that $p\ne {1\over 2},$ the difference showing up in the fourth decimal place. Here's a picture of what I find with sample-size $n=10^{11}$:

99.9% CI for p using sample-size 10^11

The posterior distribution is $\text{Beta}(a,b)$, with $(a,b)=(n\hat p+{1\over 2}, n(1-\hat p)+{1\over 2}),$ assuming a noninformative prior as $\text{Beta}({1\over 2},{1\over 2}).$ NB: With such a large sample size the posterior is insensitive to whether we use this prior or the flat Uniform prior, which is $\text{Beta}(1,1)$.

The $100(1-\alpha)\%$ credibility interval is therefore $$(B_{\alpha\over 2},B_{1-{\alpha\over 2}})$$ where $B_q$ is the $q$-th quantile of the $\text{Beta}(a,b)$ distribution.

The $100(1-\alpha)\%$ confidence interval is $$\hat p\pm z_{1-{\alpha\over 2}}\,\sqrt{\hat p(1-\hat p)\over n}$$ where $z_q$ is the $q$-th quantile of the standard normal distribution.

The sample-size of $10^{11}$ is sufficiently large that the various approaches to confidence/credibility intervals for $p$ should all give practically the same results (assuming a non-informative prior distribution in the Bayesian methods); e.g., they all give the same $99.9\%$ confidence/credibility interval for $p$, namely

$$0.499948 \pm 0.000005 = (0.499943, 0.499953).$$


EDIT: To perform a cross-check suggested in a comment, I re-ran the simulation with sample-size $10^{10}$, now using a completely different PRNG (Python's random.SystemRandom().random(), which is a much slower cryptographic PRNG). The resulting $99.9\%$ CI -- $0.49995 \pm 0.00002$ -- is consistent with the previous one for that sample-size -- $0.49994 \pm 0.00002$ -- and of course with the more-precise one given above for the $10^{11}$ sample-size.


Python code that I used for the simulation can be found here. It can also be run using the pypy interpreter for better speed; even so, on my system the simulation with sample-size $10^{11}$ took about 16 hrs.

r.e.s.
  • 15,537
  • 1
    This does rely on believing in the random number generator being perfect. it might be useful try some different ones to see if you get the same result. – Simd May 06 '24 at 06:22
  • @Simd Alternatively, the reliability of the random number generator could be tested by telling it to generate a large number of uniformly random real numbers from $0$ to $1$, and seeing how often the numbers are less than $0.5$. – Dan May 06 '24 at 07:00
  • @Simd I would say it relies on the PRNG being in some sense adequate. Cross-checking with some other PRNG is an excellent idea; unfortunately, it doesn't seem doable using pypy (which I've been using for 10X speed) -- I'll look into some alternatives. – r.e.s. May 06 '24 at 15:26
  • https://gist.github.com/amano41/4d254198333d890e6ef7ba622923e87c looks ok – Simd May 06 '24 at 16:25
  • @Simd I chose to continue with Python's random module, which provides an option for a CPRNG completely different from the default Mersenne Twister. (See edit.) Also, FWIW, I did some indirect checking of "program correctness" by confirming that simulations at sample size $10^{10}$ (with the default PRNG) are consistent with $P(a<b<c)+P(a<c<b)+P(b<c<a)=P(a<b)={1\over 2}.$ – r.e.s. May 07 '24 at 01:18
  • 1
    @Dan that is not at all a thorough test of the quality of a PRNG. Plenty of distributions can satisfy $P(X<0.5)=0.5$ but have terrible matches in other statistics to the uniform distribution. And then there's correlation of consecutive values. – aschepler May 07 '24 at 01:31
  • @aschepler OK. If a PRNG passes this test, it may or may not be reliable. If a PRNG does not pass this test, then it is not reliable. – Dan May 07 '24 at 01:35
  • 3
    @Simd Following your suggestion, I repeated the simulation three more times (with $n=10^{10}$), using three new & completely different PRNGs -- a crypto. PRNG (see edit) plus both of the PRNGs listed at the link you posted. All 3 results agree with my already-posted $99.9%$ CI (with $n=10^{11}$): each of the 3 new CIs contains the old one, and none of them contains ${1\over 2}.$ In summary, combining all 5 of my simulations, there were $1.4\times 10^{11}$ pseudorandom trials, of which $69992521805$ had $a^2<bc$, giving the $99.9%$ CI: $0.499947 \pm 0.000004 = (0.499942, 0.499951).$ – r.e.s. May 09 '24 at 18:11