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Let $q$ denote the generalized position vector, $v$ denote the generalized velocity vector and $p$ denote the generalized momentum vector. The Lagrangian of a mechanical system is a function of $q$, $v$, and possibly the time $t$.

The legendre transform of the Lagrangian outputs a Hamiltonian function, which is a function of $q$ and $p$.

The partial derivative of $L$ with respect to $v$ equals $p$; therefore $p$ is a function of $q$, $v$ and possibly time... And yet when taking the partial derivative of the hamiltonian with respect to $q$, we always say that the partial derivative of $p$ with respect to $q$ equals zero. This seems like a contradiction to me, based on how we defined $p$.

Thank's in advance!!

  • Potential duplicate: https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1963640/why-does-fracdqdt-not-depend-on-q-why-does-the-calculus-of-variations – whpowell96 Mar 08 '24 at 17:31
  • The Legendre transform is a coordinate transform that maps $(q,v)$ to $(q,p),.$ In both coordinate systems we can view the two coordinates as independent variables, even if during the coordinate transformation, say, $p$ was a function of $q$ and $v,.$ In fact, when we go from Cartesian to polar coordinates we do such things all the time. – Kurt G. Mar 09 '24 at 08:00

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I remember feeling that the proof was cutting corners when it suddenly just ignored one of the variables, so this is roughly what I came up with to reassure myself of the result.

To summarize, the Lagrangian approach finds a path $q(t)$ which minimizes the action $S[q]=\int_{t_0}^{t_1} L_t(q(t),\dot q(t))\,dt$ where $L(q,v)$ is the Lagrangian that describes the mechanics of the system and $\dot q=dq/dt$. A solution that minimizes $S[q]$ requires $$ \frac{\partial L_t}{\partial q}(q(t),\dot t(t)) = \frac{d}{dt}\frac{\partial L_t}{\partial v}(q(t),\dot q(t)). $$

The Hamiltonian is typically defined as $H_t(q,p)=p\cdot\dot q-L_t(q,\dot q)$ where $p=\partial L_t/\partial v$, and the solution that minimizes $S[q]$ must satisfy the Hamiltonian equations $$ \dot q = \frac{\partial H}{\partial p} \quad\text{and}\quad \dot p = -\frac{\partial H}{\partial q}. $$ But the definition of the Hamiltonian also contains $\dot q$, which is ignored.

Let's instead use $F_t(q,v,p)=p\cdot v-L_t(q,v)$. The curve which solves the Lagrangian equations has $v=\dot q$ and $p=\partial L_t/\partial v$. Along this curve, we get $$ \frac{\partial F_t}{\partial v}(q,\dot q,p) = p - \frac{\partial L_t}{\partial v}(q,\dot q) = 0, $$ while the partial derivatives in $q$ and $p$ yield the Hamiltonian equations.

Alternatively, you could reformulate the same in terms of the surface parametrized by $(q,v)\mapsto(q,v,p)=(q,v,\partial L_t/\partial v)$ which you then project to $(q,p)$ for the Hamiltonian approach: the partial derivative $\partial F_t/\partial v=0$ on that surface.

Einar Rødland
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