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I have a question about:schauder basis for $\ell_\infty$

I know that $\ell_\infty$ is not separable, therefore has no Schauder basis. However I cannot understand why the set $\{e_1, e_2, e_3, \dotsc \}$ where $e_1=(1,0,0,\dotsc), e_2=(0,1,0,0,\dotsc), \dotsc$ can not work as a Schauder basis.

One answer is that let $x=(1,1,1,\ldots)\in \ell_\infty$. The proof of that "$\ell_{\infty}$ has no Schauder basis by contradiction?

Question:

(1) The standard basis $\{e_n\}_{n\ge 1}$ is not Schauder basis

(2) What can we get from the results "$\sum_{I=1}^{\infty}x_ie_i$ does not converges to $x$"? I just read the proof in the second answer in schauder basis for $\ell_\infty$. I am confused about the answer.

Let $x=(1,1,1,\ldots)\in \ell_\infty$ if $x=\sum\limits_{i=1}^{\infty}x_ie_i,$ then for any $N\in\mathbb{N}$ we have $$\left\|x-\sum_{n=1}^{N}x_ne_n\right\|_{\infty}=\|(0,\ldots,0,1,1,1,\ldots)\|_{\infty}=1\not\to0,$$ so $\sum\limits_{i=1}^{\infty}x_ie_i$ does not converge to $x.$


The proof of (1): Does it make sense?

Suppse that $\{e_n\}$ is a Schauder basis. Then for every $x\in \ell_{\infty}$ we have $x=\sum_{I=1}^{\infty} x_ie_i$. That means as $n \to\infty$, $$ 0\le \sup_{k\ge n+1}|x_k|=\|(0,0,\dots,0, x_{n+1}, x_{n+2},\dots)\|_{\infty}=\|x-\sum_{I=1}^n x_ie_i\|_{\infty}\to 0 $$

Thus, $x_k=0$ for $k\ge n+1$. So $$ x=\sum_{I=1}^n x_ie_i $$

But this is impossible. Does it a contradiction?

Hermi
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    (1) doesn't prove there is no Schauder basis. You are committing the cardinal sin of using the same symbol $e_n$ for two different things (a) some (assumed exist) Schauder basis and (b) the "standard" basis in $\ell_p\hookrightarrow\ell_\infty$, – user10354138 Oct 08 '23 at 22:19
  • @user10354138 So how to prove (1)? – Hermi Oct 08 '23 at 23:46
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    @user10354138 Well, I know that since $\ell_{\infty}$ is not separable, then it does not have Schauder basis. – Hermi Oct 08 '23 at 23:47
  • You somehow have inserted the assumption that the sequence ${x_n}$ converges to zero. But that is not necessary for $x\in\ell_\infty$, such sequences only need to be bounded. – Lutz Lehmann Oct 09 '23 at 01:53

2 Answers2

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No, your proof isn't valid. You can't draw the conclusion that $\ x_k=0\ $ for all $\ k\ $ exceeding some integer $\ n\ $ from the mere fact that $\ \sup_\limits{k\ge n+1}\big|x_k\big|\rightarrow$$\,0\ $ as $\ n\rightarrow\infty\ $. The latter condition will hold if $\ x_k=\frac{1}{k}\ $, for instance, but then $\ x_k\ne0\ $ for any $\ k\ $.

Nor can you obtain a contradiction by choosing some arbitrary $\ x\in\ell_\infty\ $ and assuming that $\ \lim_\limits{n\rightarrow\infty}\sum_\limits{k=1}^nx_ke_k=x\ $, because there happen to be members $\ x\ $ of $\ \ell_\infty\ $ for which this latter condition does hold (namely, those $\ x\ $ for which $\ \lim_\limits{k\rightarrow\infty}x_k=0\ $), and an arbitrarily chosen $\ x\ $ could well be one of them unless you've specified otherwise.

For $\ \big\{e_n\big\}_{n\ge1}\ $ to be a Schauder basis, however, it must be true that for every $\ x\in\ell_\infty\ $ there exists a unique sequence $\ \big\{y_k\big\}_{k=1}^\infty\ $ such that $\ \lim_\limits{n\rightarrow\infty}\sum_\limits{k=1}^ny_ke_k=$$\ x\ $. Therefore, to show that it's not a Schauder basis you only need to find a single member of $\ \ell_\infty\ $ for which $\ \lim_\limits{n\rightarrow\infty}\sum_\limits{k=1}^ny_ke_k\ne x\ $ for any sequence $\ \big\{y_k\big\}_{k=1}^\infty\ $, and $\ x=(1,1,1,\dots)\ $ happens to be one such.

There's one relatively minor blemish in the proof you cite from here, which you also repeat in your attempted proof— namely, the assumption that if $\ x=\big(x_1,x_2,\dots\big)\in\ell_\infty\ $ and $\ x=\sum_\limits{n=1}^\infty y_ne_n\ $ then $\ y_i=x_i\ $ must necessarily hold for all $\ i\ $. Since I'm pretty sure I can see how to prove this hypothetical statement, and also that the proof won't be difficult, I might be prepared to let you get away with "It's easy to see that" it's true. However, I wouldn't be prepared to let you get away with "It's obvious" that it's true, especially because I know that in the case when $\ x=$$\,(1,1,\dots)\ $ no such sequence $\ \big\{y_k\big\}_{k=1}^\infty\ $ can exist.

Here's how you can modify your attempted proof so that it does work:

Suppose that $\ \big\{e_n\big\} $ is a Schauder basis. Then since $\ x=$$\,(1,1,\dots)\in$$\,\ell_\infty\ $ we have $\ x=$$\,\sum_\limits{n=1}^\infty y_ne_n\ $ for some sequence $\ \big\{y_k\big\}_{k=1}^\infty\ $ of complex numbers. This means that as $\ n\rightarrow\infty\ $, \begin{align} \left\|x-\sum_\limits{i=1}^n y_ie_i\right\|_\infty&=\big\|\big(1-y_1,1-y_2,\dots,1-y_n,1,1,\dots\big)\big\|_\infty\\ &\rightarrow0\ . \end{align} But \begin{align} \big\|\big(1-y_1,1-y_2,\dots,1-y_n,1,1,\dots\big)\big\|_\infty &=\sup\big(|1-y_1|,|1-y_2|,\dots,|1-y_n|,1,1,\dots\big)\\ &\ge1 \end{align} for all $\ n\ $, and it's impossible for a sequence that's never less than $\ 1\ $ to converge to $\ 0\ $.

  • Thank you! But I have a question about the first argument that is wrong for $\sup_{k\ge n+1}|x_k|\to 0$. In this question, https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4782774/the-proof-of-c-00-is-not-complete, I used the similar thing $|x_{ni}-x_i|\le |x_n-x|{\infty}\to \infty$. Why in that question we have $x{ni}=x_i$, then $x=(1, 1/2, 1/3,\dots)$? – Hermi Oct 12 '23 at 09:33
  • I'm not sure I understand the question. In the question you cite you've hypothesized that $\ x_n\rightarrow x\ $ in $\ c_{00}\ $ as $\ n\rightarrow\infty\ $ which means that $\ |x_n-x|\rightarrow0\ $ (not $\ |x_n-x|\rightarrow\infty\ $), and for $\ n\ge i\ $ you have $\ x_{ni}=\frac{1}{i}\ $, so $\ \big|x_{ni}-x_i\big|$$,=\left|\frac{1}{i}-x_i\right|\le$$,\big|x_n-x\big|\infty\ $ for $\ n\ge i\ $ and if $\ \big|x_n-x\big|\infty\rightarrow0\ $ then that implies $\ \left|\frac{1}{i}-x_i\right|=0\ $. – lonza leggiera Oct 13 '23 at 09:42
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    The difference between that case and your argument here is that here you don't have $$\ \big|x_i\big|\le \big|0,0,\dots,0,x_{n+1},x_{n+2},\dots\big|_\infty\ $$ for $\ n>i\ $. – lonza leggiera Oct 13 '23 at 09:42
  • But this answer https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1235687/schauder-basis-for-c-0 used the same method as mine. Why my method does not work? – Hermi Oct 15 '23 at 04:30
  • Sorry, why $|1/i -x_i|\le |x_n-x|_\infty$ holds for $n\ge i$ but not for all $n$? – Hermi Oct 15 '23 at 04:41
  • So in our case, $|x_i|\le |(0,\dots, 0, x_{n+1},\dots|\infty\to 0$ for $i>n+1$, right? So $x{n+1}=x_{n+2}=\dots=0$. Does it make sense? So in my answer, I wrote $x=\sum_{i=1}^n e_i$. – Hermi Oct 15 '23 at 04:45
  • No, this answer is not using "the same method" you've tried to use here. The deduction of the argument in that answer is that $\ \sup_\limits{k\ge n+1}\big|a_k\big|\color{red}{<\epsilon}\ $ for $\ n\ge n_0\ $ (and hence $\ \big|a_k\big|\color{red}{<\epsilon}\ $ for $\ k>n_0\ $), not that $\ a_k\color{red}{=0}\ $ for $\ k>n_0\ $. – lonza leggiera Oct 16 '23 at 22:14
  • Under the conditions specified in this question it follows from the conditions specified that $\ x_i=\frac{1}{i}\ $ must hold for all $\ i\ $ and hence $\ \left|\frac{1}{i}-x_i\right|\le\big|x_n-x|_\infty\ $ does indeed hold for all $\ n\ $. The identity $\ x_i=\frac{1}{i}\ $ is not one of the conditions originally specified, however, but merely a consequence of them, so it can't be assumed until it's been proved. – lonza leggiera Oct 16 '23 at 23:19
  • At the point in the argument in my first comment where I deduce the inequality $\ \left|\frac{1}{i}-x_i\right|\le\big|x_n-x|\infty\ $ from the equation $\ \big|x{ni}-x_i\big|=$$,\left|\frac{1}{i}-x_i\right|\ $ and the inequality $\ \big|x_{ni}-x_i\big|\le\big|x_n-x|\infty\ $ the given identity has not yet been proved and the equation does not hold for $\ n<i\ .$ At that stage I can therefore assert only that $\ \left|\frac{1}{i}-x_i\right|\le\big|x_n-x|\infty\ $ holds for $\ n\ge i\ $, not that it holds for all $\ n\ $. – lonza leggiera Oct 16 '23 at 23:19
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Hint: By contradiction

1.Show that, $(\mathbb R^\infty,\|\cdot\|_{\infty})$ is a Banach space

  1. For $n\in\mathbb N$ set $$\mathbb R_n = \{x=(x_1,x_2,...)\in\mathbb R^\infty :x_i =0 ~~\text{if}~~i>n~i.e~x=(x_1,x_2,\cdots,x_n,0,0,\cdots)\}$$
    Show that $\mathbb R_n$ is closed subspace of $(\mathbb R^\infty,\|\cdot\|_{\infty})$
  2. Since $(e_1,e_2,..)$ is Schauder Basis, observe that, $$\mathbb R^\infty = \bigcup_{n\in\mathbb N}\mathbb R_n $$
  3. From Baire Theorem's there exists $n_0$ such that, $\overset{\circ}{\mathbb R}_{n_0} \neq \emptyset$ that is there are $x_0\in \mathbb R^\infty$ and $r>0$ such that, $B(x_0,r)\subset\mathbb R_{n_0}$

5.Deduce from 4. that, $\mathbb R_{n_0}=\mathbb R^\infty$ contradiction.

Guy Fsone
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