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Let $E$ be complete and there are no isolated points in $E$. I work on a question to show that there exists a subset $F$ satisfying two properties (1) the $F^{\circ}$ is empty and (2) $F$ is not meagre.


I would like to check my proof. My proof is as follows.

Update: I follow the comments and change my proof.

There is a countable open base $\{U_n\}_{n=1}^{\infty}$. We take $x_1\in U_1$ and construct the set of $\{x_1,x_2,\dots\}$ inductively as follows. We take $x_2\in U_2\setminus span\{x_1\}$, $x_3\in U_3\setminus span\{x_1,x_2\}$, $\dots$, $x_n\in U_n\setminus span\{x_1,\dots, x_{n-1}\}$, $\dots$.

Set $A=\{x_1,x_2,\dots \}=\cup_{i=1}^{\infty}\{x_i\}$. Then I need to show that $(A^c)^{\circ}=\emptyset$ and is not meagre.

But I am not sure if we can say

(1) Since every open sets intersects $A$, then $A$ is dense. Thus, $A^c$ is nowhere dense. Then $int(\bar{A^c})=\emptyset$.

(2) Can we say $A^c$ is not meagre?

Hermi
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2 Answers2

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So a Banach space is completely metrizable. Since we are assuming it also separable, it is Polish (which I mention only for reference as there is a lot of literature on the topic of Polish spaces; e.g. descriptive set theory). As mentioned in the comments, in (1), if $F$ is assumed to have empty interior, then the only open set $U$ for which $U \subseteq F$ is $U = \emptyset$, so it can't reach the intended contradiction with the union of the $B$s.

Another edit: As pointed out in the comments, the approach below doesn't work, in general. I do believe it to work if you assume, additionally, that $X^\ast$ is infinite. (whoops, again) MW's answer contains the right condition.

Edit: In fact, the contradiction approach doesn't seem to be much more helpful since the contradictory hypothesis is of the form "for every subset $F$, $F$ is either $P_1$ or $P_2$ where $P_1$ and $P_2$ are the stated properties. However sets having both of those properties exist all the time. For example, any closed nowhere dense set has non-empty interior is of first category. As long as we have a space that is not meager in itself (true of any complete metrizable space), then the entire space is an example of a subset which has non-empty interior and is of second category. So the contradictory approach somehow needs to go against the "for all" which boils down to just needing to produce a set that contradicts the assumption, which was the original task.

At any rate, I think a more direct approach works for completely metrizable spaces that are separable and aren't just a countable set of isolated points, generally. Consider a completely metrizable and separable space $X$ that is not a countable union of isolated points. Then $X^\ast$ defined to be $X$ without isolated points is still a Baire space since a closed subspace of a completely metrizable space is completely metrizable. Also by metrizability, separability is hereditary, so we can consider a countable dense set $D = \{ x_n : n \in \mathbb N \} \subseteq X^\ast$. Note that, for each $n \in \mathbb N$, $U_n := X^\ast \setminus \{ x_n \}$ is open and dense in $X^\ast$ since $X^\ast$ has no isolated points. Then consider $F := \bigcap_{n\in\mathbb N} U_n$. As mentioned above, $X^\ast$ satisfies the Baire Category Theorem. Hence, not only is $F$ dense, but it cannot be of first category. Moreover, $F$ has empty interior since it misses a dense subset of $X^\ast$.

C. Caruvana
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  • @Hermi I will update my answer to provide a little more detail on the complication with the contradiction approach. Also, one could avoid using "completely metrizable," in general, but one would still need the Baire Category Theorem for this approach to work, so I'm not sure much more can be said there. – C. Caruvana Oct 06 '23 at 20:37
  • Oh, another complication with just using general Baire spaces is that closed subspaces of Baire spaces need not be Baire. So using the complete metrizability of Banach spaces really is somewhat important. – C. Caruvana Oct 06 '23 at 20:44
  • @Hermi See https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/451469 for some examples of Baire spaces that have closed subspaces which are not Baire, and relevant commentary about complete metrizability. – C. Caruvana Oct 06 '23 at 21:49
  • @Hermi I am using the metrizability in the argument, but, as mentioned in the answer, we don't really use the Banach structure, just the complete metrizability and separability. So yes, if you have a Banach space, it is already completely metrizable via the norm. – C. Caruvana Oct 07 '23 at 00:52
  • @Hermi If $X$ is a countable union of isolated points, then every subset of $X$ is open, so there is no set of second category with empty interior (all subsets of this space have non-empty interior). – C. Caruvana Oct 07 '23 at 00:53
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    This argument does not work. If $X={0}\cup {\frac{1}{n}\mid n\in \mathbb Z^+}$, then $X^* ={0}$, so $X^*$ certainly does have isolated points. In fact, this theorem will be false for $X$. – M W Oct 07 '23 at 01:58
  • @MW Good point. I'll edit my post accordingly. – C. Caruvana Oct 07 '23 at 15:23
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    I think it still will fail if $X^*$ is infinite, since you can have a scenario where, for example, $X\subseteq \mathbb R^2$ is the $x$-axis, along with a countable discrete set of points whose closure includes the $x$-axis. (e.g., take $\frac{1}{n}\mathbb Z\times {\frac{1}{n}}$ for each $n$, union $x$-axis.) The $x$-axis is nowhere dense in $X$, hence meagre in $X$, even though its nonmeagre in itself. – M W Oct 07 '23 at 15:32
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[Edited to remove some incorrect statements.]

This fact does not require any facts about the linear structure of the space. The fact that $E$ is complete and there are no isolated points in $E$ is more than enough, since this means every countable subset is meagre (i.e., first category), since the singletons which comprise it are nowhere dense.

That is, if $D$ is countable and dense in $E$, then $F:=E\backslash D$ has no interior, but must be nonmeagre, since otherwise $E=F\cup D$ would be a union of two meagre sets, and would hence be meagre, a contradiction to the Baire Category theorem.

Update

Regarding your proof, the logic of the method isn't exactly wrong (to complete the proof you would invoke Baire Category as in the previous argument to argue that $A^c$ cannot be meager, as then $E=A\cup A^c$ would be meager), however, there was no need to go the roundabout route of constructing your own countable dense subset when you already have one by definition of separability.

Remark

The condition that there are no isolated points in $E$ is stronger than we need - a necessary and sufficient condition for the statement to hold in a complete separable metric space $E$ is that there is some nonempty open $U\subseteq E$ containing no isolated points.

To see sufficiency, note that in such a space, we can pick such a $U$ and let $D$ be our countable dense set, then $D\cap U$ is meagre and and $F:=U\backslash D$ must be nonmeagre, since by Baire category a nonempty open subset of a complete space must be nonmeagre.

To see necessity, note that if every open set contains an isolated point, then the set $U$ of isolated points is a dense open set in $E$, and any $F\subseteq E$ that has empty interior must not intersect $U$, hence its closure must be contained in $E\backslash U$, which is nowhere dense, hence $F$ is meagre.

M W
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  • But in your proof"if $D$ is dense in $E$, then $F:=E\backslash D$ has no interior, but must be nonmeagre, since otherwise $E=F\cup D$ would be a union of two meagre sets, and would hence be meagre, a contradiction to the Baire Category theorem". Where do we use the space that is separable? Maybe I missed something? If I understand right, you use "since $E$ is separable, then there is a countable dense sets?" But it seems that "countable" is not necessary? – Hermi Oct 07 '23 at 06:36
  • We used it to get $D$ to be meagre, since if $D$ is dense but uncountable, then we have no way to conclude its meagre. – M W Oct 07 '23 at 06:37
  • Oh! That makes sense now. So in my proof I actually first construct such a countable dense set $D$... I see! – Hermi Oct 07 '23 at 06:42
  • @Hermi it is a countable union of singletons, and singletons are nowhere dense, provided they are not isolated points, since the closure of a singleton is that singleton, which has interior if and only if it is isolated. – M W Oct 07 '23 at 07:03
  • So in our case, how to make sure there is no isolated points in $D$? – Hermi Oct 07 '23 at 07:19
  • @Hermi unnecessary, we only need to know that none of the points in $D$ are isolated in $E$ (though it will actually be true that none are isolated in $D$ itself). This follows in your case from the fact that a Banach space has no isolated points (indeed, every point is on a line). – M W Oct 07 '23 at 07:21