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In Cohen Forcing, "Set Theory and the Continuum Hypothesis" a modified Tarski truth definition is taken in the Metatheory as the Forced Truth Relation "$\Vdash$" in a model N. Only information from a countable model M of Set Theory is used in "$\Vdash$" to create a new set G $\in$ N, but G $\notin$ M. G has the property that G $\subset$ K (K $\in$ M).

G is constructed sequentially from a sequence of increasingly long finite logical 'forcing expressions' P$_1$,P$_2$,... which are consistent and each P$_i$ describes which elements of K are in/not in G (e.g. P$_1$={k1 $\in$ G, k2 $\notin$G, ...}) , and P$_{i+1}$ $\supseteq$ P$_i$.

The novel feature of "$\Vdash$" is that it allocates each P$_i$ before the full sequence P$_{i+1}$ , P$_{i+2}$ ,... is created. This is achieved, in essence, by modifying the Tarski Truth Definition to create a consistent sequence G := {P$_1$ , P$_2$ , ..} with associated consistent set of expressions A$_r$ describing the model N, True(N) := {A$_1$, A$_2$, .., A$_r$, ...} by checking all possible future P$_j$ via "For All P$_j$.." as follows:

P$_i$ $\Vdash$ $\neg$ A$_r$ $\;$ iff $\;$ For all P$_{j}$ $\supseteq$ P$_i$ $\;$ $\;$ P$_j$ $\nVdash$ A$_r$ .....................(1)

and

P$_i$ $\Vdash$ $\;$ A$_r$ $\;$ iff $\;$$\;$ For all P$_{j}$ $\supseteq$ P$_i$ $\;$ $\;$ P$_j$ $\Vdash$ A$_r$ ....................(2)

To allow the full sequence of P$_i$'s and therefore G:={P$_1$ , P$_2$ , ...} <-> {k$_1$ , k$_2$ , ...} to be sequentially created, equations (1) & (2) then imply :

For All P$_i$ and A$_r$ there exists a P$_{j}$ $\supseteq$ P$_i$ : Either P$_j$ $\Vdash$ A$_r$ or P$_j$ $\nVdash$ A$_r$ .....................(3)

$\mathbf{My}$ $\mathbf{Questions}$ $\mathbf{Are:}$

(a) The Truth Definition for Forcing looks to have the same overall definition of Tarski Truth. However the "For all P$_j$ $\supseteq$ P$_i$" calculation, which is intended to stop any future elements P$_j$ in G from being inconsistent with earlier elements P$_i$, looks to be a transfinite calculation and not finite or computable. So is the forcing relation computably definable? If 'looking into the future' via equations (1) & (2) was not done, presumably the method would be OK, but just more complicated, but it could be computable ?

(b) The expression "For all P$_{j}$ $\supseteq$ P$_i$ $\;$ P$_j$ $\Vdash$ A$_r$" looks to be equivalent to the infinite expression (the kj aren't in P$_i$, and suppressing the P$_i$ for visual clarity) :

(k1 $\Vdash$ A$_r$ AND $\neg$ k1 $\Vdash$ A$_r$) AND (k2 $\Vdash$ A$_r$ AND $\neg$ k2 $\Vdash$ A$_r$) AND ..... .....................(4)

This means that for any countable (in the Metatheory) X, whether X$\in$M or not, when A$_r$ is the expression "X=G", then the expression would be false, since in effect Equation (4) means that the set X would need to be inconsistent i.e. X = (ki from P$_i$) AND (k1 AND $\neg$k1) AND (k2 AND $\neg$k2).....}. So for each P$_i$ the equation (4) means that no X can equal G. However, strangely, in the limit as i becomes infinite there will no longer be any inconsistent expressions, so X = G only in this case ?

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    Why are you reading Cohen? – Asaf Karagila Dec 06 '19 at 16:49
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    I like Cohen's book! I'm sure it's not the thing to read for serious set theorists, but reading that little book was a real revelation to me. I learned a ton from it. – Lee Mosher Dec 06 '19 at 17:01
  • @AsafKaragila : I'm interested in the ability to determine all expressions about G before G itself is fully known (I'm a Physicist and it would be very handy to be able to do something with this aspect of Forcing). Cohen's book is the only place I have seen Forcing explained in this way - if you know other references I'm all ears. –  Dec 06 '19 at 17:56
  • What does "computably definable" mean? If it helps, even for relatively simple sentences $\varphi$ the set $${p: p\Vdash\varphi}$$ need not be computable even if we assume that the poset is computable. – Noah Schweber Dec 06 '19 at 18:07
  • "determine all expressions about G before G itself is fully known" This is phrased in an ambiguous way which I think might be adding confusion: each individual fact about $G$ winds up being determined at some stage during the construction of $G$ (and in particular before $G$ is "completed"), but there is no stage during the construction where all facts about $G$ have been determined. One way to demystify this is to first think about rather concrete properties - e.g. if we force with finite binary sequences in the usual way, do you understand why "$G$ has infinitely many $1$s" is ensured? – Noah Schweber Dec 06 '19 at 18:10
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    Pretty much any exposition to forcing would be better. Try Halbeisen. – Asaf Karagila Dec 06 '19 at 18:11
  • @Noah Schweber. I had assumed when Cohen said on page 119, Lemma 4 "A complete sequence (ie G) exists" that in the Metatheory the full G can be known in its entirety all at once, so every element can be known. Your comment "but there is no stage during the construction where all facts about G have been determined" suggests my interpretation is incorrect ? –  Dec 06 '19 at 20:16
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    The reason to not read Cohen for learning these subjects is that the terminology and definitions shifted over the last 56 years, and that means that we (the younger generation of set theorists that only learned forcing after the 1970s) have a hard time communicating with you with regards to these questions. For example the use of "generic" in Cohen's work is entirely different from the modern use of the term. – Asaf Karagila Dec 07 '19 at 17:59

1 Answers1

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I think a substantial chunk of your question can be rephrased as follows (and the rest is clarified by the answer to this rephrasing):

In forcing, how are "global" statements about $G$ - which a priori are only determined once $G$ is "completed" - determined by "local" information (namely individual conditions)?

Rougly speaking, the point is that they don't - it's only in the presence of a genericity assumption on $G$, which is itself a "global" fact about $G$.

Incidentally, this is closely related to the "Generic Comments" section of my answer to an earlier question, to which I've just made some minor edits for readability (and corrected one major typo).


A good first step towards demystify this is to first think about rather concrete properties - e.g. if we force with finite binary sequences in the usual way, just thinking about the definition of genericity it's clear that we'll have infinitely many $1$s in $G$: for each $k$, the set $D_k$ of conditions which already have at least $k$ many $1$s is dense, so by genericity $G$ has to meet each $D_k$ and hence have infinitely many $1$s.

Phrased in terms of the forcing relation, we've shown that $$\emptyset\Vdash\forall k(\vert G^{-1}(1)\vert\ge k)).$$ So there's an example of some "local" information - in this case, no information at all! - determining some "global" fact about $G$.


The above example probably feels like cheating at first: it wasn't really an individual condition, but rather the genericity requirement, which was doing the heavy lifting. But this is exactly the point! When we say $p\Vdash\varphi$ we don't really mean that the "local" fact that $p\in G$ on its own tells us that $\varphi$ will be true, but rather that this local fact together with the "global" fact that $G$ is sufficiently generic tells us that $\varphi$ will be true.

So we're not magically deducing "global" information from "local" information; rather, we're identifying a certain kind of global information which reduces all information to local information, in the following rough sense:

Suppose $P$ is some "global" question about filters. Then for any generic filter $G$, whether $P$ holds or fails of $G$ is determined entirely by some "local" fact about $G$ (namely, some condition $p\in G$) together with the fact that $G$ is generic.

This kind of "local-to-global-given-global" mechanism is actually something we see all the time - once we replace "global" with "future". For example:

  • If I'm playing chess, the "local" fact that I have a king and a rook against a king and it's my turn tells me the "global/future" fact that I'm going to win - given the "global/future" fact that I'm going to play optimally.

  • Suppose I'm seeing, digit-by-digit, the decimal expansion of some number $\theta$. Then I know right away (the "trivial" amount of "local" information) the "global/future" fact that I'll eventually see a digit which is not $3$ ... given the "global/future" fact that $\theta$ is guaranteed to be irrational.

The "global-from-local" principle in forcing (which is one of the two forcing theorems) is really just another example this phenomenon. It is more mysterious at first for two reasons:

  • The relevant kind of "global guarantee" is $(i)$ rather technical (genericity) and $(ii)$ surprisingly uniform (it works for all appropriately-expressible global questions).

  • Related to point $(ii)$ above, the global facts we're reducing to local facts via a global guarantee (genericity) are in general very complicated. In the example above, it was obvious how even a little genericity guaranteed that $G$ had infinitely many $1$s; the connection between genericity and the continuum hypothesis is much less clear.

But the underlying nature of the situation is the same.


The above directly answers your first question. It also points the way towards the answer to the second: it's hidden in my observation that

The relevant kind of "global guarantee" is [...] surprisingly uniform (it works for all appropriately-expressible global questions)

(changed emphasis mine). The point is that the question of whether the generic literally is a given specific thing is not so expressible, so the paradox you describe doesn't occur: for general $X$ (e.g. $X\not\in M$), the fact "$G$ is fully $M$-generic" is not enough to reduce the question "Is $G=X$?" to a local question about $G$.

The forcing theorem doesn't say that genericity reduces all global information to local information; it only applies to some things, namely those expressible in the forcing language.


Let me end with a largely-unrelated but perhaps worthwhile minor point: when you write

...determine all expressions about $G$ before $G$ itself is fully known,

the phrasing is ambiguous in a way which might be adding confusion (and even if you're not having an issue at this point, another reader might). So let me clarify: each individual fact about $G$ winds up being determined at some stage during the construction of $G$ (and in particular before $G$ is "completed"), but there is no stage during the construction where all facts about $G$ have been determined.

Noah Schweber
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  • Since the Forcing relation is in effect a modified Tarski Truth definition for truth in the model M[G], then not all expressions in M[G] and therefore about G can be determined simultaneously, though one at a time is possible. Is this the reason for your comment "The point is that the question of whether the generic literally is a given specific thing is not so expressible."? –  Dec 11 '19 at 21:04
  • Also presumably the Forcing Relation isn't computable, so it must be of a more complicated form in some formula complexity higherarchy ? –  Dec 11 '19 at 21:06
  • Formula (2) looks to be the same as applies in a deductive calculus, in that if A ⊢ B, then [(any expression), A] ⊢ B also, so the methodology is looking to make B independent of any other expressions that may be true ? –  Dec 11 '19 at 21:13
  • @LittleCheese Re: your second comment "Also presumably the Forcing Relation isn't computable, so it must be of a more complicated form in some formula complexity higherarchy ?" There isn't a single definable forcing relation for all sentences; rather, there is for each $n$ a definable forcing relation for $\Sigma_n$ formulas. (This is similar to how by Tarski there isn't a single truth predicate, but there is a $\Sigma_n$ truth predicate for each $n$.) The lack of a single definition of a forcing relation which works for everything at once is a consequence of Tarski + Laver/Woodin: (continued) – Noah Schweber Dec 11 '19 at 21:17
  • Laver/Woodin showed that $M$ is always definable (with a parameter) in $M[G]$, and so we can (computably) find for each sentence $\varphi$ in the language of set theory a sentence $\varphi'$ in the forcing language such that $\emptyset\Vdash \varphi'$ iff $M\models\varphi$. So a uniform forcing definition would yield a definition of truth, contra Tarski. Meanwhile I can't parse your third comment. – Noah Schweber Dec 11 '19 at 21:20
  • Re: your first comment, I also don't understand "Since the Forcing relation is in effect a modified Tarski Truth definition for truth in the model M[G], then not all expressions in M[G] and therefore about G can be determined simultaneously, though one at a time is possible." My point re: expressibility was just a language one: for $X\not\in M$ there is in general no way in the forcing language of $M$ to write "the generic filter is $X$" - it's just not something the language is equipped to do (since $X\not\in M$). – Noah Schweber Dec 11 '19 at 21:23
  • Intriguing on the Laver/Woodin finding. The 3rd comment was making a link between Forcing and the usual deductive properties. Cohen says on p112 that the 'target' properties for forcing are essentially those that are true for "the usual properties of implication". So (2) is a property of both ⊢ and the forcing relation for example. –  Dec 11 '19 at 21:30
  • @LittleCheese Sure, forcing is an abstract deduction relation, but I don't understand what "so the methodology is looking to make B independent of any other expressions that may be true" means. – Noah Schweber Dec 11 '19 at 21:36
  • Similarly (3) applies to ⊢ as well as the Forcing relation. I also think that Cohen probably wanted (3) to build the new set G, and showed it can only be implied by (2). The (1) easily follows from (2) and the need for consistency, if I understood Cohen correctly. –  Dec 11 '19 at 21:39
  • @LittleCheese I honestly can't follow that comment. Can you clarify at this point what your question is? I think I've lost the thread ... – Noah Schweber Dec 11 '19 at 21:41
  • ... on the B independent I think Cohen was thinking of using the the usual deductive calculus (e.g. Hilbert rules) as a basis for his Forcing relation - once a deduction B has been made there isn't anything (for a consistent language) that would make B untrue. I think this requirement then led Cohen directly to forcing. –  Dec 11 '19 at 21:44
  • Actually I wasn't making a question in the last few comments - just as an aside 'for interest'. I found how Cohen presented how the Forcing relation definition was deduced to be straightforwards and inevitable. Use a truth definition to create a new set, use the properties of ⊢ to work out the details of the Truth definition (essentially (1) & (2)). –  Dec 11 '19 at 21:50