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This is a standard theorem in probably many books at introductory level to number theory:

For $a,b \in \mathbb Z$ with $b >0$, there exist unique $q,r \in \mathbb Z$ such that $a=bq+r$ and $0 \leq r < b$.

If we agree that from now on the multiplication and addition and ordering are the "usual" ones over $\mathbb R$ then I would like to write of what I am thinking about.

I am thinking of does this theorem holds over some other sets than $\mathbb Z$ , that is:

If for every $a,b \in S \subseteq \mathbb R$ and $b>0$ there exist unique $q,r \in S$ such that $a=bq+r$ and $0 \leq r < b$ is then necessarily $S \subseteq \mathbb Z$? Does $S$ needs to be equal to $\mathbb Z$? Are there some sets that are not subsets of $\mathbb Z$ over which this holds? Are there some exotic ones?

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    "Does $S$ need to be equal to $\Bbb Z$" Trivial counterexample: $S={0,1}$. That is, however, the only example of such a set other than $\Bbb Z$ that I can think of off the top of my head. – JMoravitz Dec 27 '17 at 21:19
  • Can it be that there are some exotic ones? Not trivial, that is. –  Dec 27 '17 at 21:20
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    Related concept: Euclidean domain. – ccorn Dec 27 '17 at 21:22
  • If $S$ is a subring, then $S = \mathbb{Z}$. Else for instance $a\mathbb{Z}$ and $a^{\mathbb{Z}}$ work for any $a \in \mathbb{R}^{>0}$. – nombre Dec 27 '17 at 21:41
  • You're just looking for Euclidean Domains, which can be the maximal order of some finite extensions of $\mathbb{Q}$ – Naweed G. Seldon Dec 27 '17 at 21:41
  • @junkquill Not just a Euclidean domain, a Euclidean subset with a specific Euclidean valuation in mind. – Sera Gunn Dec 27 '17 at 21:45
  • (actually, $a\mathbb{Z}$ does not work) – nombre Dec 27 '17 at 21:47
  • @TrevorGunn Of course, I understand. But an ED is an example of what OP is looking for. Isn't it? – Naweed G. Seldon Dec 27 '17 at 22:00
  • @junkquill If the subset happens to also be a subring then yes. – Sera Gunn Dec 27 '17 at 22:01
  • Right, then the ring of integers of a quadratic extension of $\mathbb{Q}$ with class number 1 is the answer OP is looking for. Examples are then: $\mathbb{Z[\sqrt{2}]}, \mathbb{Z[\sqrt{3}]}, \mathbb{Z[(1+\sqrt{5})/2]}, \mathbb{Z[(1+\sqrt{13})/2]}, \mathbb{Z[(1+\sqrt{17})/2]}$ etc. – Naweed G. Seldon Dec 27 '17 at 22:04
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    @junkquill those examples use a different valuation. – Sera Gunn Dec 27 '17 at 22:05
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    Yes, you're absolutely right. My mistake, I overlooked an important detail.This makes the question really interesting. – Naweed G. Seldon Dec 27 '17 at 22:07
  • There seems to be nothing in the question which implies that the order on $S$ is induced by the order on $\mathbb R$. What is stated implies that we are working in a real field (every square is positive). But what, in the question as written, implies $\sqrt 2 \gt 0$? Ie the fact that every square is positive, and that $S$ is ordered, does not force a canonical approach to square roots. It is not stated either whether $b\gt 0$ applies in $\mathbb R$ or $S$. – Mark Bennet Dec 27 '17 at 22:17
  • @nombre: I'm quite sure that $a^\mathbb{Z}$ ($a>0$) does not work either. Namely, wlog $a<1$. Dividing 1 ($=a^0$) by itself, one gets unique exponents $q,r$ with $r>0$ and $1=a^q\cdot 1+a^r$ (which already shows $a$ would need to be algebraic). On the other hand, dividing $a^{-n}$ by 1, we get unique exponents $q(n), r(n)$ with $r(n) >0$ and $a^{-n} = a^{q(n)} + a^{r(n)}$. Multiplying this with $a^n$ gives $1 = a^{q(n)+n}\cdot 1 +a^{r(n)+n}$, and $r(n)+n>0$, so by uniqueness $r =r(n)+n \ge n$ for all $n$, which is absurd. – Torsten Schoeneberg Jan 02 '18 at 07:41
  • @TorstenSchoeneberg: Yes, you're right, and for now your examples are the only ones I can think of. – nombre Jan 02 '18 at 10:24

3 Answers3

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So, not an anwser but just a special case:

If $S$ is a subring of $\mathbb{R}$, then it must be discrete (and therefore be $\mathbb{Z}$), since if there is $0 < s < 1$ in $S$, then $s = 1\times 0 + s = 1 \times s + 0$ with $0 \leq 0,s < 1$.

nombre
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    Does this not show the stronger statement "If $S$ contains $0$ and $1$, then it cannot contain $0<s<1$"? – Torsten Schoeneberg Dec 31 '17 at 19:01
  • Also, the argument generalises to "If $0,x,y \in S$ with $0<x<y$, then $\frac{x}{y} \notin S$. (In this case, $y=1$ and we get the contradiction $x\notin S$.) – Torsten Schoeneberg Jan 01 '18 at 23:10
  • Yes indeed. I insisted on $S$ being a subring because it is easier for me to see how this would be interesting. It would be nice to know in what context Antoine Pal Adeen asked himself that question. – nombre Jan 01 '18 at 23:25
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This is not a definite answer, but a collection of observations, examples and ideas, some of them more worked out than others. Any feedback, refinements, counterexamples etc. are greatly appreciated.


Observation: Every $S\subseteq \Bbb{R}_{\le 0}$ is an example because the condition is vacuously true.

So from now on, we assume $S^+ :=S \cap \Bbb{R}_{>0} \neq \emptyset$. Let $b :=\inf S^+$.

Lemma: Either $b=\min S^+ = 1$ (case 1), or $b = 0$ (case 2). In case 1, necessarily $0\in S$.

Proof: Let $x\in S^+$. First assume $b \ge 1$. By hypothesis there are $q \in S, r\in S^+\cup \{0\}, r<x$ with $x=qx+r$. Since $r<x$ we get $q\in S^+$, hence $q \ge b$, hence the contradiction $$x = qx+r\quad \ge \quad bx +r \; \stackrel{b>1 \; \text{or} \;b=1, r>0}> \;x,$$ unless $q=b=1$ and $r=0$, which is case 1.
Now assume $0\le b<1$. For every $\epsilon >0$, there is $x_\epsilon\in S^+$ with $x_\epsilon<1$ and $x_\epsilon-b<\epsilon$. We have $x_\epsilon = q_\epsilon x_\epsilon +r_\epsilon$ with $r_\epsilon<x_\epsilon$, so necessarily $q_\epsilon\in S^+$ and hence $q_\epsilon x_\epsilon \ge b^2$. If $r_\epsilon=0$, we get $q_\epsilon=1$, so $S$ contains the three elements $r_\epsilon = 0<x_\epsilon<1 = q_\epsilon$, which contradicts the argument in nombre's answer. So $r_\epsilon>0$ and thus $r_\epsilon>b$. Now if $b >0$, any $0< \epsilon < b^2$ gives the contradiction $q_\epsilon x_\epsilon = x_\epsilon-r_\epsilon \le \epsilon$. QED.


See below for many different examples for case 1, but as of now, there are no examples for case 2.

Conjecture: Case 2 is impossible.

The argument in nombre's answer shows that an $S$ in case 2 could not contain both $0$ and $1$. Such an example would (obviously) contain arbitrarily small positive numbers, but also (as one sees via "dividing" by such a small number) arbitrarily big numbers.


Here are some examples for case 1 containing elements outside of $\mathbb{Z}$:

  • For any real $x>1$, $S = \{0,1,x\}$.

What about $\{0,1,x,y\}$ with $1<x<y$? One checks that for existence of mutual divisions with remainder, one needs $y=x^2$ or $y=x+1$, or $y=x^2+1$. For uniqueness in the first two cases, one needs however that $x^2 \neq x+1$ or in other words, $x \neq \frac{1}{2}(1+\sqrt5)$. (Because otherwise, $x\cdot x + 0 = 1\cdot x + 1$ are two different ways to "divide $x^2$ (resp. $x+1$) by $x$ with remainder $<x$".) So:

  • For any real $1<x$, $S = \{0,1,x, x^2+1\}$.
  • For any real $1<x\neq \frac{1}{2}(1+\sqrt5)$, $S = \{0,1,x, x+1\}$.
  • For any real $1<x\neq \frac{1}{2}(1+\sqrt5)$, $S = \{0,1,x, x^2\}$.

Generalising the third example, for any $x>1$ and $k \in \Bbb{N}$,

  • $S = \{0,1,x, x^2, ..., x^k\}$

as well as the infinite

  • $S = \{0,1,x, x^2, ...\}$

work, if one makes sure there is no relation of the form $x^a = x^b +x^c$ with $c<b<a$ among the occurring exponents. In particular, each $x\ge 2$, and also each transcendental as well as each rational $x>1$, works.

A general idea here would be to start with a set $\hat S \,(\supseteq \{0,1\})$ of polynomials in $\mathbb{Q}[X]$ (or $\mathbb{Z}[X]$; actually, we want to restrict to non-negative coefficients, $\mathbb{N}_0[X]$) for which we have unique division with remainder (with respect to the degree valuation), and then evaluate those polynomials at $x\in \mathbb{R}$. As long as $\hat S$ is finite, it seems as if by choosing $x$ big enough one can make sure that the order on $\mathbb{R}$ refines the order given by the degree, and the "evaluated set" $S = \hat S(X=x)$ would be an example. But there are some subtleties here I am not sure about.

Finally, here is a non-discrete example which further generalises the last one:
Let $R$ be a non-discrete additive subgroup of $\Bbb{Q}$, and $R_{\ge 0}$ its non-negative elements. Then for each choice of $x>1$, except possibly countably many algebraic ones,

  • $S= \{0\} \cup \{x^r: r\in R_{\ge 0}\}$

is an example. Namely, again one just has to make sure that there is no relation of the form $x^a = x^b +x^c$ with $c<b<a$ among the occurring exponents. But every $x$ that satisfies such a relation is algebraic (as well as $\notin \Bbb{Q}$).


Finally, even though the OP asks about sets $S$ that are larger than $\mathbb{Z}$, I find it already interesting to think about which subsets $S\subset \Bbb{Z}$ have this property, and, to keep it in the spirit of the considerations above, I want to restrict to those which contain $0$ and $1$ (which makes sense if we want to write every element $a \in S$ as $1\cdot a +0$), and whose elements are non-negative.

The good thing in this situation that one does not need to worry about uniqueness of the division with remainder, since that is obviously inherited from $\mathbb{Z}$. So one just has to make sure that all quotients and remainders of pairs are in the set. Here are some examples, the first four being just special cases of the more general ones above:

  • For every $n, k \in \Bbb{N}$, $S = \{0,1, n, n^2, ..., n^k\}$.
  • For every $n \in \Bbb{N}$, $S = \{0,1, n, n^2, ...\}$.
  • For every $n \in \Bbb{N}$, $S = \{0,1, n, n+1\}$.
  • For every $n \in \Bbb{N}$, $S = \{0,1, n, n^2+1\}$.
  • For every $n \in \Bbb{N}$, $S = \{0,1, n, n^2+1, n(n^2+1)\}$.
  • For every $n \in \Bbb{N}$, $S = \{0,1,2, ..., n\} \cup B$ where $B$ is an arbitrary subset of $\{n+1, ..., 2n+1\}$. (Proposed by Glen Whitney, see his comment).

Note how the last example feels different from the others, as it seems to be not "induced" by certain polynomials, as all the ones before.

One way to think about this problem is to define the following "closure" operator on any subset $\{0,1\} \subseteq T \subseteq \mathbb{Z}$:

$$c(T) := T \cup \{\lfloor a/b\rfloor, a-\lfloor a/b \rfloor b :a,b \in T, 0\neq b\}$$

which adds all quotients and remainders of elements in $S$ to it. A set $S$ that satisfies your property then is one with $$c(S) =S$$ and one could ask whether one always reaches such a "$c$-closed" set after finitely many iterations of applying $c$. This is certainly true if $T$ is finite, since all elements that get possibly added are bounded by the largest element of $T$. For example, if I start with $T = \{0,1,7,9\}$, I get $c(T) = \{0,1,2,7,9\}, c^2(T) = \{0,1,2,3,4,7,9\}$ and this last set is $c$-closed,

  • $S = \{0,1,2,3,4,7,9\}$

which is a special case of the last example above. On the other hand, the $c$-closure of $\{0,1,2,10\}$ is just

  • $S = \{0,1,2,5,10\}$

which is of the type of the penultimate example.

It would be very nice if one had an alternative explicit description of such $c$-closed sets. Also, whose sets' $c$-closure ends up being of what kind?

  • They need not be "larger" than Z in the sense of cardinality, just beautiful. +1 for an effort. –  Jan 01 '18 at 11:28
  • Thanks. I am still thinking about it and occasionally updating this answer. – Torsten Schoeneberg Jan 01 '18 at 23:13
  • I believe that there are some exotic ones, but I do not think much about this. –  Jan 01 '18 at 23:22
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    Not a characterization of finite "c-closed" sets, but here's one family of them that contains your last example: all sets $C$ of the form $C = [0,m] \cup B$ where $B\subseteq[m+1,2m+1]$. (Using $[x,y]$ for inclusive integer ranges.) We check $C$ is c-closed by cases on which piece of the union $a$ and $b$ lie in. Both in $[0,m]$, obvious; $a\in[0,m]$ and $b\in B$, the quotient is 0 and the remainder is $a$; $a\in B$ and $b\in[0,m]$, the quotient and remainder are in $[0,m]$ (except for the trivial $b=1$); and both in $B$, the quotient is 0 or 1 and the remainder is in $B$ or $[0,m]$, resp. – Glen Whitney Jan 06 '18 at 09:40
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the least abstract is polynomials with rational coefficients. There is a gcd and Bezout formula $pa+qb = g.$ Instead of $0 \leq r < b,$ each step gives either $r = 0$ or $\deg r < \deg b \; .$ Constant polynomials get degree zero, as below with 185/16. Notice how one more line is needed to get remainder actually zero, not degree zero.

$$ \left( x^{4} + 2 x^{3} + 3 x^{2} + 4 x + 5 \right) $$

$$ \left( 6 x^{3} + 7 x^{2} + 8 x + 9 \right) $$

$$ \left( x^{4} + 2 x^{3} + 3 x^{2} + 4 x + 5 \right) = \left( 6 x^{3} + 7 x^{2} + 8 x + 9 \right) \cdot \color{magenta}{ \left( \frac{ 6 x + 5 }{ 36 } \right) } + \left( \frac{ 25 x^{2} + 50 x + 135 }{ 36 } \right) $$ $$ \left( 6 x^{3} + 7 x^{2} + 8 x + 9 \right) = \left( \frac{ 25 x^{2} + 50 x + 135 }{ 36 } \right) \cdot \color{magenta}{ \left( \frac{ 216 x - 180 }{ 25 } \right) } + \left( \frac{ - 72 x + 180 }{ 5 } \right) $$ $$ \left( \frac{ 25 x^{2} + 50 x + 135 }{ 36 } \right) = \left( \frac{ - 72 x + 180 }{ 5 } \right) \cdot \color{magenta}{ \left( \frac{ - 250 x - 1125 }{ 5184 } \right) } + \left( \frac{ 185}{16 } \right) $$ $$ \left( \frac{ - 72 x + 180 }{ 5 } \right) = \left( \frac{ 185}{16 } \right) \cdot \color{magenta}{ \left( \frac{ - 1152 x + 2880 }{ 925 } \right) } + \left( 0 \right) $$ $$ \frac{ 0}{1} $$ $$ \frac{ 1}{0} $$ $$ \color{magenta}{ \left( \frac{ 6 x + 5 }{ 36 } \right) } \Longrightarrow \Longrightarrow \frac{ \left( \frac{ 6 x + 5 }{ 36 } \right) }{ \left( 1 \right) } $$ $$ \color{magenta}{ \left( \frac{ 216 x - 180 }{ 25 } \right) } \Longrightarrow \Longrightarrow \frac{ \left( \frac{ 36 x^{2} }{ 25 } \right) }{ \left( \frac{ 216 x - 180 }{ 25 } \right) } $$ $$ \color{magenta}{ \left( \frac{ - 250 x - 1125 }{ 5184 } \right) } \Longrightarrow \Longrightarrow \frac{ \left( \frac{ - 10 x^{3} - 45 x^{2} + 24 x + 20 }{ 144 } \right) }{ \left( \frac{ - 60 x^{2} - 220 x + 369 }{ 144 } \right) } $$ $$ \color{magenta}{ \left( \frac{ - 1152 x + 2880 }{ 925 } \right) } \Longrightarrow \Longrightarrow \frac{ \left( \frac{ 16 x^{4} + 32 x^{3} + 48 x^{2} + 64 x + 80 }{ 185 } \right) }{ \left( \frac{ 96 x^{3} + 112 x^{2} + 128 x + 144 }{ 185 } \right) } $$ $$ \left( x^{4} + 2 x^{3} + 3 x^{2} + 4 x + 5 \right) \left( \frac{ - 60 x^{2} - 220 x + 369 }{ 1665 } \right) - \left( 6 x^{3} + 7 x^{2} + 8 x + 9 \right) \left( \frac{ - 10 x^{3} - 45 x^{2} + 24 x + 20 }{ 1665 } \right) = \left( 1 \right) $$

Will Jagy
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  • I was thinking just about subsets of $\mathbb R$. –  Dec 27 '17 at 21:35
  • @AntoinePalAdeen, well, $\mathbb Z \sqrt 6$ works. – Will Jagy Dec 27 '17 at 21:39
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    $\mathbf{Z}\sqrt 6$ does not work because there is no way to write $\sqrt 6 = q \sqrt 6 + r$ with $q,r \in \mathbf{Z}\sqrt 6$ and $0 \le r < \sqrt 6$. – Sera Gunn Dec 27 '17 at 21:47
  • Doesn't $q=1$, $r=0$ work? – Naweed G. Seldon Dec 27 '17 at 21:59
  • @junkquill $1$ isnt an element of $\mathbf{Z}\sqrt 6$ – Sera Gunn Dec 27 '17 at 22:03
  • My apologies. I thought we were talking about $\mathbb{Z}[\sqrt{6}]$, where $1$ is definitely an element. – Naweed G. Seldon Dec 27 '17 at 22:05
  • @TrevorGunn I see, I left off the bracket signs; my fault. See http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/124484/show-mathbbz-sqrt6-is-a-euclidean-domain/124573#124573 – Will Jagy Dec 27 '17 at 22:21
  • @junkquill I see, I left off the bracket signs; my fault. See http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/124484/show-mathbbz-sqrt6-is-a-euclidean-domain/124573#124573 – Will Jagy Dec 27 '17 at 22:22
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    @WillJagy A Euclidean Domain is also something that I proposed as an answer on the comments of the question. But as TrevorGunn points out, the valuation (which I presume means the norm) which is what defines the condition on the remainder is not the same in $\mathbb{Z}[\sqrt{6}]$ as in $\mathbb{Z}$ – Naweed G. Seldon Dec 27 '17 at 22:24
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    @junkquill I see, he was insisting on the same absolute value and order. I don't think there will be any examples; it may not fit all the conditions the OP thought he wanted, but my original example of polynomials with rational coefficients is a good one to start with. – Will Jagy Dec 27 '17 at 22:29
  • But the OP specifically asks for $S \subset \mathbb{R}$, and your example encounters the same problem as any ED defined - the dependence on the norm function. – Naweed G. Seldon Dec 27 '17 at 22:31
  • @junkquill fair enough. Let us just say that I answered the question he probably should have asked. – Will Jagy Dec 27 '17 at 22:32
  • @WillJagy There I agree with you. Then a general answer would be, keeping in mind that $S \subset \mathbb{R}$, all the ring of integers of a finite extension of $\mathbb{Q}$ with class number $1$. – Naweed G. Seldon Dec 27 '17 at 22:34