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Let $p:X\rightarrow Y$ be a closed continuous surjective map such that $p^{-1}(\{y\})$ is compact for each $y\in Y$. Show that if $X$ is Hasudorff then $Y$ is Hausdorff..

Let $a\neq b\in Y$. Fix $x\in X$ such that $p(x)=a$. Let $y_i\in X$ such that $p(y_i)=b$

As $X$ is Hasudorff there exists $U_i$ containing $x$ and $V_i$ containing $y_i$ such that $U_i\cap V_i=\emptyset$

See that $\{V_i\}$ is an open cover for $p^{-1}(\{b\})$. As this is finite there exists a finite subcover $\{V_i\}_{i=1}^n$

Fix $y\in X$ such that $p(y)=b$.. Let $x_i\in X$ such that $p(x_i)=a$

As $X$ is Hasudorff there exists $M_j$ containing $x_j$ and $N_j$ containing $y$ such that $M_j\cap N_j=\emptyset$

See that $\{M_j\}$ is an open cover for $p^{-1}(\{a\})$

As this is finite there exists a finite subcover $\{M_j\}_{i=1}^m$

Consider $\bigcup_{i=1}^n V_i$ and $\bigcup _{j=1}^m M_j$ open sets in $X$

Their complement $\bigcap_{i=1}^n V_i^c$ and $\bigcap _{j=1}^m M_j^c$ are closed in $X$

As $p$ is a closed map we have $p\left(\bigcap_{i=1}^n V_i^c\right)$ and $p\left(\bigcap_{j=1}^m M_j^c\right)$ are closed

So, $\left(p\left(\bigcap_{i=1}^n V_i^c\right)\right)^c$ and $\left(p\left(\bigcap_{j=1}^m M_j^c\right)\right)^c$ are open

I expect to have $a\in\left(p\left(\bigcap_{j=1}^m M_j^c\right)\right)^c$ and $b\in \left(p\left(\bigcap_{i=1}^n V_i^c\right)\right)^c$ but could not prove

Suppose $a\in p\left(\bigcap_{j=1}^m M_j^c\right)$ i.e., $a=p(x)$ for some $x\in \bigcap_{j=1}^m M_j^c$ i.e., $x\notin M_j$ for all $j$

We have $p^{-1}(a)\subset \bigcup_{j=1}^n M_j$ in particular, we must have $x\in \bigcup_{j=1}^n M_j$ but then $x\notin M_j$ for any $j$, contradiction

Similarly for $b$ also we have same thing

Is this justification sufficient enough?

EDIT : I do not see why should $\bigcup_{i=1}^n V_i$ and $\bigcup _{j=1}^m M_j$ in $X$.. Accepted answer below assume that they are disjoint.. It is my mistake.. User asked me to check if it is disjoint and i said yes..

  • First off, don't fix an $x$ instead, use $p^{-1}(a)$. Reason is that $p$ need not be injective. – Justin Benfield Mar 12 '16 at 19:59
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    There may be so many preimages.. I am taking one $x$,, What is wrong in that? –  Mar 12 '16 at 20:04
  • Besides the unnecessary complexity? I'm not sure, it might actually work, by why make the problem harder? – Justin Benfield Mar 12 '16 at 20:05
  • @JustinBenfield how do you separate $p^{-1}(a)$ from $p^{-1}(b)$ – Michael Harrison Mar 12 '16 at 20:06
  • @MichaelHarrison Still thinking on that, but I think that is the step where you use compactness of $p^{-1}(y)$. – Justin Benfield Mar 12 '16 at 20:08
  • There is an ultrafilter characterization of Hausdorffness as well, a proof can be given along the lines of the proof for compactness. –  Mar 12 '16 at 20:09
  • So, after all Is this justification correct? or Wrong? @JustinYoung –  Mar 12 '16 at 20:11
  • So, after all Is this justification correct? or Wrong? @JustinBenfield –  Mar 12 '16 at 20:14
  • It is possible to separate compact sets in a Hausdorff space (see here e.g.) but I am not sure if the OP can assume it is possible or has to prove this step. – Michael Harrison Mar 12 '16 at 20:14
  • @MichaelHarrison : That is what i have proved i guess.. –  Mar 12 '16 at 20:19
  • @cello You're approach was correct, but there were issues with the details. This proof is one of those proofs that's not hard to get conceptually, but is a lot trickier to actually prove because of those pesky details. – Justin Benfield Mar 12 '16 at 20:56
  • @JustinBenfield : I do not understand this sentence "Your approach was correct".. Are you saying there are some gaps? or what exactly is that? –  Mar 12 '16 at 21:05
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    Try going back and analyzing your own proof, looking carefully at where you used each assumption, and how each step is justified from the previous one. Then try that with the proof I gave, you might notice how much more 'apparent' and clear the connections are, that's what I'm getting at. The idea is pretty straightforward: Start with distinct points in $Y$, lift them to $X$, get your required open sets from $X$, convert to their (closed) complements, push them back down to $Y$, then complement again and intersect to get the desired sets. – Justin Benfield Mar 12 '16 at 21:09
  • Hausdorff is the name of a person, so we write it wih an uppercase h. – Mariano Suárez-Álvarez Mar 12 '16 at 21:14
  • @MarianoSuárez-Alvarez : Done, Sir.. –  Mar 12 '16 at 21:16

2 Answers2

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Given $y_1, y_2 \in Y$, the preimages are compact, hence may be separated by open sets $A_1$ and $A_2$. (Proof below). Then $A_1^c$ and $A_2^c$ are closed, and so their images are closed. We claim that $p(A_1^c)^c$ and $p(A_2^c)^c$ separate $y_1$ and $y_2$. First, $y \in p(A_i^c)^c$ if and only if $p^{-1}(y) \subset A_i$. Therefore $y_1 \in p(A_1^c)^c$ and $y_2 \in p(A_2^c)^c$. In particular, $y \in p(A_1^c)^c \cap p(A_2^c)^c$ if and only if $p^{-1}(y) \subset A_1 \cap A_2 = \emptyset$, hence $p(A_1^c)^c \cap p(A_2^c)^c = \emptyset$.


EDIT: I did not include the proof that the compact sets can be separated because it was linked in the comments. But for completeness I include the argument here.

Step 1: For each $z \in p^{-1}(y_2)$, we will separate $z$ from $p^{-1}(y_1)$. That is, we will construct an open neighborhood $B(z)$ of $z$ and an open set $A(z)$ containing $p^{-1}(y_1)$, such that $A(z)$ and $B(z)$ are disjoint. Here is the construction:

For each pair of points $x \in p^{-1}(y_1)$, $z \in p^{-1}(y_2)$, we can choose open disjoint neighborhoods $A_{xz}$ and $B_{xz}$, containing $x$ and $z$, respectively. For fixed $z$, $A_{xz}$ is a cover of $p^{-1}(y_1)$, and we may pass to a finite subcover $A_{x_iz}$. Now define $$A(z) = \bigcup_i A_{x_iz} \ \ \ \ \ B(z) = \bigcap_i B_{x_iz}.$$ Then $A(z)$ is an open set containing $p^{-1}(y_1)$ and $B(z)$ is an open neighborhood of $z$. Moreover, if $u \in B(z)$, then $u \in B_{x_iz}$ for all $i$, hence $u \notin A_{x_iz}$ for any $i$, hence $u \notin A(z)$. Thus we have completed step 1.

Step 2: Here we construct open disjoint sets $A_1$ containing $p^{-1}(y_1)$ and $A_2$ containing $p^{-1}(y_2)$.

The sets $B(z)$ constructed above give a cover of $p^{-1}(y_2)$, so we may pass to a finite subcover $B(z_i)$. Now define $$A_1 = \bigcap_i A(z_i) \ \ \ \ \ A_2 = \bigcup_i B(z_i).$$ Then $A_1$ is an open set containing $p^{-1}(y_1)$ and $A_2$ is an open set containing $p^{-1}(y_2)$. Now if $v \in A_1$, then $v \in A(z_i)$ for all $i$, hence $v \notin B(z_i)$ for any $i$, hence $v \notin A_2$. Therefore $A_1$ and $A_2$ are disjoint.

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    deleted all $....$ in my question –  Mar 12 '16 at 20:35
  • Sorry if it seems too picky, but mathematical notation can already be difficult to look at without adding unnecessary symbols :D – Michael Harrison Mar 12 '16 at 20:36
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    I take it seriously, No more .... in my further questions.. –  Mar 12 '16 at 20:40
  • What happens to this proof if the pre-images are not finite sets? How do you obtain $A_1$ and $A_2$? – Justin Benfield Mar 12 '16 at 20:58
  • I used the fact which we discussed in the comments of the original post, that two compact sets in a Hausdorff space can be separated by open sets. – Michael Harrison Mar 12 '16 at 21:06
  • @JustinBenfield : There is no question of finite sets here I guess –  Mar 12 '16 at 21:06
  • There is some problem.. Please see the edited version of my question –  Mar 13 '16 at 11:50
  • @cello I have included the argument that compact sets in a Hausdorff space can be separated, so that my answer is now complete. – Michael Harrison Mar 13 '16 at 17:32
  • Thanks. Can you say if my choice $\bigcup U_i$ and $\bigcup M_j$ has empty intersection.. I do not think they have empty intersection –  Mar 13 '16 at 17:38
  • No, they do not necessarily have empty intersection. You choose your finite cover of $p^{-1}(b)$ by only considering a single fixed point $x \in p^{-1}(a)$, and same with your cover of $p^{-1}(a)$. You really need to get a finite subcover of $p^{-1}(b)$ for every point $x$. Once you do that, you'll have, for every $x$, a finite subcover of $p^{-1}(b)$ AND a neighborhood of $x$ which is disjoint from that cover. Now use compactness the other way to get down to a finite number of these $x$. This is exactly what I did above, just with different notation. – Michael Harrison Mar 13 '16 at 17:48
  • @MichaelHarrison : Thanks for spending your time in explaining that but for some reason i am not able to grasp it... It would be useful if you can say some thing more about that.. –  Mar 13 '16 at 20:08
  • @cello I wrote an example in the comments to Justin's answer, which I think it may be helpful for you to read. Consider the function $p : [-4,4] \to [0,4] : x \mapsto |x|$. Pretend that we don't know the space $[0,4]$ is Hausdorff and we want to find open disjoint neighborhoods of the points $1$ and $3$. You should convince yourself that if we try to choose covers of $p^{-1}(1)$ and $p^{-1}(3)$ based on the beginning of your proof, it is possible to choose covers which overlap at some point. I am not sure that I can say anything else helpful until you understand why your argument fails. – Michael Harrison Mar 13 '16 at 20:19
  • @cello In any case, I have edited once again to hopefully clarify the argument. – Michael Harrison Mar 13 '16 at 21:10
  • @MichaelHarrison : Thank You... This is giving me some better idea.. May be i need some more time to understand this.. I will come back to you once i have clear idea.. –  Mar 13 '16 at 22:07
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Let $a\neq b\in Y$, $p^{-1}(a)$ and $p^{-1}(b)$ exist by surjectivity of $p$ and we have by assumption that $p^{-1}(a)$ and $p^{-1}(b)$ are compact.

Note that $p^{-1}(a)\cap p^{-1}(b)=\emptyset$ by $p$ being a function.

For each pair of points $x\in p^{-1}(a)$, and $y\in p^{-1}(b)$, by $X$ Hausdorff, there exist open sets $U_{x,y}$ and $V_{x,y}$ such that $U_{x,y}\cap V_{x,y}=\emptyset$. These form open covers of $p^{-1}(a)$ (by $U_{x,y}$'s), and $p^{-1}(b)$ (by $V_{x,y}$'s). For each $x_0\in p^{-1}(a)$ we have an open cover of $x_0$ by the sets $U_{x_0,y}$ for all $y\in p^{-1}(b)$, hence by compactness, these open covers each have finite subcovers. Let $\mathfrak{U}_0$ denote the intersection of finite cover for $x_0$. Then $\mathfrak{U}_0$ separates $x_0$ from every $y$ because $\mathfrak{U}_0 \cap V_{x_0,y}=\emptyset$ for all $y$. The union $\bigcup_{x_0 \in p^{-1}(a)}\mathfrak{U}_0$ is an open cover of $p^{-1}(a)$. Hence it has a finite subcover, which we denote as $\mathfrak{U}$. An analogous construct can be done for each $y_0\in p^{-1}(b)$, ultimately yielding a finite open subcover of $p^{-1}(b)$ which we denote $\mathfrak{V}$. (Note: must use the exact same $U_{x,y}$'s and $V_{x,y}$'s for this construction)

Now we need to get open sets in $Y$. To do so, we will exploit the last unused hypothesis: $p$ is a closed map. Let $\mathfrak{U}^c$ denote the set of complements of the elements of $\mathfrak{U}$, and likewise for $\mathfrak{V}^c$ and $\mathfrak{V}$.

Consider the images of the sets in these collections through $p$, which will denote as $p(\mathfrak{U}^c)$ and $p(\mathfrak{V}^c)$. These are images of closed sets, hence closed in $Y$. We take their complements which yield open finite collections of open sets in $Y$.

First, since $p^{-1}(a)\cap \bigcap_{P\in \mathfrak{U}^c}P=\emptyset$, $a\notin p(\mathfrak{U}^c)$ and hence $a\in p(\mathfrak{U}^c)^c$. With the analogous result holding for $b$. Finally define $U=\bigcap_{P\in p(\mathfrak{U}^c)^c}$ and likewise $V=\bigcap_{Q\in p(\mathfrak{V}^c)^c}$. (Intersect the open sets we got.)

Now suppose $z \in U \cap V$. Then $p^{-1}(z) \cap U_{x,y}$ and $p^{-1}(z) \cap V_{x,y}$ are nonempty for every $x,y$, but this implies that there exists $x_0\in p^{-1}(a)$ and $y_0\in p^{-1}(b)$ such that intersection $U_{x,y}\cap V_{x,y}$ is nonempty. But this contradicts our earlier construction, hence $U\cap V=\emptyset$. Therefore, $Y$ is Hausdorff.

  • +1 for considering for each pair $x,y$ open sets $U_{x,y}$ and $V_{x,y}$.. This makes it much cleaner... –  Mar 12 '16 at 21:11
  • That was a typo, it's fixed. :) – Justin Benfield Mar 12 '16 at 21:11
  • Thanks again... It looks more beautiful than my proof –  Mar 12 '16 at 21:20
  • I got pretty sloppy with notation near the end (in general was doing more renaming that I probably needed to). But the good thing about that proof imo is that I went to great length to spell out the logic of it as clearly and precisely as I could. – Justin Benfield Mar 12 '16 at 21:23
  • Consider the case where $p^{-1}(a) = \left{x_1,x_2\right}$, and $p^{-1}(b) = \left{y_1,y_2\right}$. Maybe one can choose $U_{x_1,y_1}$ to contain $x_2$ and $y_2$, and $V_{x_1,y_1}$ to be a small open set around $y_1$. Similarly, choose $U_{x_2,y_2}$ to be a small open set around $x_2$ and $V_{x_2,y_2}$ to contain $x_1$ and $y_1$. Then $U_{x_1,y_1}$ forms a finite cover of $p^{-1}(a)$, $V_{x_2,y_2}$ forms a finite cover of $p^{-1}(b)$, but they are not disjoint. Isn't this an issue? – Michael Harrison Mar 12 '16 at 21:32
  • More expicitly, consider the map $[-4,4] \to [0,4] : x \mapsto |x|$. Let's try to separate the points $1$ and $3$ in the image. We can form a finite open cover of $p^{-1}(1)$ which is the interval $(-2.5,4]$ and a finite open cover of $p^{-1}(3)$ which is the union $[-4,2) \cup (2,4]$. Note that these covers could have been the resulting covers according to the rules you set out. But the resulting open sets of $1$ and $3$ are $[0,2.5)$ and $(2,4]$, which actually intersect. – Michael Harrison Mar 12 '16 at 21:52
  • @JustinBenfield But I think you can fix it easily. You just need to choose your finite open covers more carefully. If for some fixed pair $(x',y')$, the set $U_{x',y'}$ is in the finite open cover, then $V_{x',y'}$ must also be in the finite open cover. – Michael Harrison Mar 12 '16 at 22:02
  • @MichaelHarrison What about $U_{x_1,y_2}$, $U_{x_2,y_1}$, and $V_{x_1,y_2}$, $V_{x_2,y_1}$. I meant every possible pairing of points, one from $p^{-1}(a)$ and the other from $p^{-1}(b)$. Moreover, I solve the overlap problem at the very end, when I show that there is no $z \in U\cap V$. – Justin Benfield Mar 13 '16 at 15:50
  • @MichaelHarrison More precisely, what takes care of that issue, is that once I have the open sets in $Y$ that I got from the finite covers in $X$, by complementing them and then pushed though $p$ (exploiting $p$ being a closed map), and complementing the result. I take their intersections. By construction $a$ is in every one of the open sets that I intersect to obtain $U$ (and there are finitely many so it's still open). Likewise for $b$ and the open sets I intersect to obtain $V$. I then proved that are indeed disjoint by contradiction (the argument with $z$). – Justin Benfield Mar 13 '16 at 15:56
  • @MichaelHarrison Nvm, you're right about needing to choose the finite subcover more carefully. I had to think through an explicit example before I figured out what went wrong (and how to fix it). I'll edit that into my answer. – Justin Benfield Mar 13 '16 at 16:27