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The premise (you can skip to the mathematical part below):

You are driving back to the town where you were born. You haven't been home for a very long time and you are unsure if you are even on the correct way. To irony's amusement, the road suddenly splits in two and you feel completely lost as there are no directions and it is foggy and you can barely see further than 100 meters. But you know for sure that one of them is the road to your hometown, the other takes you somewhere else. On the roadside you see a petrol station so you decide to make a short pit stop and ask for directions.

As you walk into the building you see the cashier, a young man in his early 20's. You walk up to him and state your business but he says he doesn't know which road leads where because he just started working there a couple of weeks ago, but that there are two men coming here every day and drink a cup of coffee and stay there for a couple of hours without talking to anyone and then they leave. They surely know the correct road. "But be warned!" he says, "One of the men is known to be a liar, he always lies. The other one cannot say anything but the truth." The cashier points to the direction of the two men. One sits at a table and stares out the window into the seemingly endless fog as if he could make sense of it. The other man sits at the bar and reads the newspaper. You decide to walk to the man staring out of the window. You ask him only one question. When he answers, you confidently start walking back to your car and know to take the road to your right.

As you get into your car you see the young cashier rushing out of the store. He is seemingly perplexed and asks you why you didn't talk to the other man. You tell him you didn't need to, as the liar has been exposed. He then asks you what question you asked. You tell him: "What would the other say, which road leads to my hometown?".


So, I tried to reformulate this scenario into a stochastic view.

Let $r_1, r_2$ (road $1$ and $2$) be independent random variables and $\delta_*$ their respective space such that $\mathbb{E}_{\delta_*}[r_i] > 0$ and $\mathbb{E}_{\delta_*}[r_{j}] < 0$ with $i,j \in \{1,2\}$. This measure is not directly observable.

Now let $\delta_1$ and $\delta_2$ be two observable measures with the following (again, $i,j \in \{1,2\}$):

$$ \mathbb{E}_{\delta_i}[r_i] > 0 \; \text{ and } \; \mathbb{E}_{\delta_i}[r_j] < 0. $$

My interpretation of $\mathbb{E}_{\delta_i}[r_i]$ is what $\delta_i$ (man $i$) says about $r_i$ (road $i$). Now the "question" you have to ask to observe $\mathbb{E}_{\delta_*}[r_i]$ is:

\begin{eqnarray} \text{if } \mathbb{E}_{\delta_j}\left[\mathbb{E}_{\delta_i}[r_i]\right] &>& 0 \; \text{ then } \mathbb{E}_{\delta_*}[r_i] < 0\\ \text{if } \mathbb{E}_{\delta_j}\left[\mathbb{E}_{\delta_i}[r_i]\right] &<& 0 \; \text{ then } \mathbb{E}_{\delta_*}[r_i] > 0 \end{eqnarray}

Could someone verify this line of thought?

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    Downvoted for a lot of unnecessary verbiage. (Did we really need to know that one man was staring out the window?) – WillO Nov 06 '14 at 15:35
  • No, but if reading hurts you, then you could have skipped to the mathematical part ^^ – David Seres Nov 06 '14 at 15:45
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    Introducing random variables in the model may obscure the deterministic nature of the outcome. Certainly throwing in "the liar has been exposed" seems misleading, as one cannot tell from the exchange which of the two men is a liar (although "we" as the protagonist of the story can determine which road goes to the hometown). – hardmath Nov 06 '14 at 15:46
  • @DavidSeres: Except it's quite impossible to know in advance which parts are going to be relevant to the mathematics. – WillO Nov 06 '14 at 15:51
  • @WillO: I get what you are saying. I'll edit my post accordingly. – David Seres Nov 06 '14 at 15:58
  • @hardmath: If the two measures are exclusive, you can actually know which $\delta_i = \delta_*$. You are right in the sense, that asking only one question will not reveal their types. But if you ask the person again, this time stating simple question whether road 1 leads home then you can know who is lying. – David Seres Nov 06 '14 at 16:44
  • Yes, if you ask a second question you can get that additional "bit" of information. – hardmath Nov 06 '14 at 17:21
  • If someone wanted to make the probabilistic aspect relevant, perhaps a hybrid of this with the Monty Hall problem would be interesting. – hardmath Nov 07 '14 at 12:07
  • @hardmath: I've been thinking about $\delta_*$. I would argue for the necessity of it to be the fact that one of the two roads leads you home. If that knowledge is missing or neither of the roads is correct then the paradox leads ad absurdum. – David Seres Nov 10 '14 at 17:20

1 Answers1

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I don't know why probability theory is relevant here:

Lets say you ask a similar question to either one of the people:

"What would you say if I asked you which is the correct road to take?"

Then the answer will be the correct road, not due to some probabilistic argument, but by mathematical logic:

  1. If you ask the Liar, then the truthful answer will be the wrong road, so he'll tell you the correct road.
  2. If you ask the truthful person, then you'll get the correct road.

Mathematically, with $L=$ liar, $T=$truthful, $C=$told correct road, $W=$told wrong road, and $S(A)=$"Mr. A, Which road should I take to get home?"

$S(L)\implies W \therefore \neg(S(L)\implies W) \equiv S(L)\implies \neg W = C$ Since to answer $W$ would be a truthful statement about his response. Similarly,

$S(T) \implies C$ Since the truthful person will truthfully say that they would have said the correct road.

This is "mathematical", although there's nothing wrong with plain ol' English too. Symbolds are just tools, means to an end, not the goal.

  • I didn't say you have to, I just find probability more interesting. As soon as there are more roads involved or probabilities regarding the absoluteness of lying I think it gets more interesting if you take probability into consideration. – David Seres Nov 06 '14 at 22:10
  • @DavidSeres yeah, probabilistic viewpoints are interesting. Also, if there is some uncertainty in how untruthful each person is, then probabilistic reasoning is very relevant. For example, consider the scenarios where each person has a 50% of lying 100% of the time or telling the truth 100% of the time; now, compare this to the scenario where each person lies 50% of the time. Now, probabilistic reasoning is almost essential. Thanks for the interesting question! –  Nov 07 '14 at 04:10