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In this MO answer, Felipe Voloch makes the claim

Actually, this is my only serious complaint about Hartshorne. He doesn't do any Number Theory and $\operatorname{Spec}\mathbb Z$ is where schemes really shine.

Matt Emerton writes an amazing answer discussing the use of scheme theory in Mazur's theorem on torsion points of elliptic curves, but that result is of course highly highly nontrivial. EDIT: Actually, maybe a small piece of Mazur's proof can work for my question: Emerton sketches the proof that the elliptic curve with equation $$y^2 +y = x^3 - x^2 - 10 x - 20$$ (the explicit equation whose projectivization is $X_0(11)$) has only finitely many rational solutions. Reading through Emerton's sketch, it actually does seem somewhat reasonable to present after developing a decent (but not overwhelming) amount of scheme theory and algebraic number theory.

More generally, many answers "selling"/"hocking" scheme theory extol its theoretical niceties, so my line of questioning can be summarized as:

What is the simplest non-trivial explicit application of this scheme theoretic thinking for rings? Like given this commutative unital ring $R$, cooking up all this data $R_\frak p$ (localizations) and forming this sheaf and this topological space, gluing a bunch of things together... what did I win? What "simple sounding" concrete problem in previously-known language can I now solve with this new language?

This MO answer gives a nice list, but I still think those are both too non-trivial, and/or not "simple sounding" enough. It would be really nice to have some toy Diophantine problem, that is not too hard, but gives a chance for the scheme theory of $\operatorname{Spec} \mathbb Z$ to shine, as Voloch envisions.

Or if such a problem does not exist, what's the simplest possible clue that schemes can tell us deeper information about arithmetic? This beautiful answer by Alex Youcis seems to say that the "win" provided by scheme theory is the bridge between arithmetic (for a given equation) and the intrinsic geometry of that equation (related to the actual geometry of that equation over say $\mathbb C$). If this is truly where the "wins" are, what's the simplest slice of the bridge that can be constructed, to say something non-trivial about some arithmetic problem?

Or if there really is no such simple material, how would you augment the standard intro AG curriculum (like Hartshorne) to highlight more of the true "shine" of schemes? What would be a good "capstone" theorem, to advertise at the beginning of such a class and then to reward students with at the end of a semester of theory-building?


As an example for something else, I recently came across this MSE question that I think would serve as a nice concrete "reward" for understanding lots of topics in more classical algebraic geometry, like projective varieties, blow-up, etc. But it is unclear if there is enough "scheme flavor" to really show schemes "shining".

Just for funzies (please don't take this more seriously than that!), I asked ChatGPT and it had a suggestion about the unit equation in certain rings of integers.


EDIT: Alex Youcis pointed out in a comment that for the question "what sort of questions in differential geometry are solved by the definition of a manifold?" the answer is "none, but manifolds are the language in which deep results in differential geometry are written in."

I claim my question is instead more analogous to: "what's the easiest simple-sounding/simply-phrased questions can be solved by taking the perspective of manifolds & answering abstract manifold questions". And I have an answer: in this beautiful video, 3blue1brown shows how the inscribed rectangle problem can be phrased naturally as a topological question about a certain surface. It is immediately clear that having a language to talk about this surface rigorously, plus one small intuitive lemma (1 slide at minute 22:30) directly solve the problem.

My goal is to do something similar for scheme theory as 3blue1brown has done for topology; of course, it will be harder and might take 4 hours instead of 30 minutes, but the pedagogical spirit is the same.

hm2020
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D.R.
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    I am not sure that this is elementary in your sense, but you can prove the following amusing fact. If $A$ is a field which is finitely generated over $\mathbf{Z}$, then it is finite. Proof: If it is an $\mathbf{F}_p$ algebra then apply Nullstellensatz. Otherwise $\mathrm{Spec}(A)\to \mathrm{Spec}( \mathbf{Z})$ is open (being finitely presented flat), but factors through $\mathrm{Spec}(\mathbf{Q})$ so a contradiction. This is used to define the zeta function of a variety. – shubhankar Mar 18 '25 at 08:12
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    I think there are several directions being pushed toward in this question, and it's not clear which is the main purpose. As sort of alluded to in Qiaochu's answer, the reason that 'scheme theory shines over $\mathbb{Z}$'--which implicitly means 'exhibits its usefulness over classical algebro-geometric language'--is the ability to accommodate rings of mixed characteristic, i.e., where the residue fields needn't be the same characteristic. This is not something that 'classical' algebraic geometry can handle, and is integral to the study of number theory. – Alex Youcis Mar 19 '25 at 00:34
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    Geometrically $\mathrm{Spec}(\mathbb{Q})$ is thought of as an 'indeterminately small' open subset of the 'curve' $\mathrm{Spec}(\mathbb{Z})$, and so it is inevitable that the geometry of objects over $\mathrm{Spec}(\mathbb{Q})$ are benefited by being able to put rigorous meaning to that idea. In particular, this talk: https://ayoucis.wordpress.com/2017/10/02/a-fun-enough-talk/ and this post: https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4652524/why-are-p-adic-numbers-ubiquitous-in-modern-number-theory/4653014#4653014 should indicate the theoretical reasons such a thing is desirable. – Alex Youcis Mar 19 '25 at 00:40
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    As for a 'quick/simple application to Diophantine equations', I am not sure a non-contrived one exists, for the simple reason that Diophantine equations are hard. So, examples ABOUND (e.g., Fermat's last theorem, Faltings's solution to the Mordell conjecture, Mazur's torsion theorem,...) but they aren't going to be solved by 'schemes exist' because well...they are hard. Of course, they are all solved by exploiting the geometry of schemes over $\mathrm{Spec}(\mathbb{Z})$, but sussing out this geometry is incredibly difficult/deep. – Alex Youcis Mar 19 '25 at 00:47
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    To make an analogy, if someone said "what sort of questions in differential geometry are solved by the definition of a manifold?" the answer is "none, but manifolds are the language in which deep results in differential geometry are written in." Schemes are not the end, but the beginning. – Alex Youcis Mar 19 '25 at 00:50
  • @AlexYoucis thanks for your comments; they could very well be an answer! For the last comment: it's more like "what's the easiest simple sounding/simply phrased questions can be solved by taking the perspective of manifolds & answering abstract manifold questions". And I have an answer: www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQqtsm-bBRU 3b1b shows how the inscribed rectangle problem can be phrased naturally as a topological question about a certain surface. It is immediately clear that having a language to talk about this surface rigorously+small intuitive lemma (1 slide at 22:30) directly solve the problem. – D.R. Mar 19 '25 at 02:53
  • @AlexYoucis I think your monumental blogpost/talk and MSE answer are exactly in the vein I'm drilling in!!! Sidenote: do you happen to have any notes regarding the motivation/"philosophical meaning"/geometry of central simple algebras and Brauer groups? Lastly, re: the difficulty of the standard applications of the power of scheme theory, how difficult would Matt E's $N=11$ case be to present in full? If that's still too much, could we isolate an even simpler subproblem? I also asked https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/30866#comment10843255_35341, maybe you have an answer (Matt E is gone) – D.R. Mar 19 '25 at 03:33
  • The basic difficulty is that everything that uses the perspective of schemes over $\mathbb Z$ and is reasonably easy can be done, in a pinch, without using schemes over $\mathbb Z$. In fact for any individual simple question the effort expended to avoid scheme theory is probably greater than the effort expended to introduce the relevant scheme theory. It's just that learning the language of schemes pays dividends over a series of questions. – Will Sawin Mar 21 '25 at 20:09
  • @WillSawin I assume you mean to say that for individual simple questions, the "cost" of developing scheme theory is inordinately high, but the "investment" pays off over multiple simple questions. [Response:] I'm ok paying the cost just for one problem; I just need a "simplest possible proof of concept" showing the geometric perspective of schemes does actually solve a non-trivial concrete problem, that is not just a rephrasing of other methods (e.g. I don't want a "Furstenburg topological proof of infinitude of primes"-style "use" of scheme theoretic thinking). – D.R. Mar 21 '25 at 20:22
  • @WillSawin the idea you mention of one "payment" of scheme theory paying off over a series of questions is also why I'm targeting (say) the $N=11, 13, 17$ cases of Mazur's theorem. My hope/vision is that the proofs for all 3 cases follow closely Emerton's sketch, and will all share a common core bit of scheme theory, thus showcasing --- in as simple/early a way as possible --- a major concrete "win" of walking on this (long) scheme theory road. My MO question https://mathoverflow.net/q/489805/112504 is about trying to understand the details and feasibility of this vision. – D.R. Mar 21 '25 at 20:52
  • @D.R. - Of $k$ is Dedekind domain and if $A$ is a finitely generated $k$-algebra, you may consider the max-spectrum $X:=Max(A)$. There is a sheaf of rings on $X$ making $(X, \mathcal{O}_X)$ a locally ringed space with global sections equal to $A$. Hence over a Dedekind domain you may in fact avoid prime ideals. But the theory becomes more streamlined if you include prime ideals in the topological space. – hm2020 Mar 22 '25 at 09:53
  • Here is a thread explaining how to define the max spectrum: https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/3906932/grothendieck-point-of-view-of-algebraic-geometry/3997811#3997811 – hm2020 Mar 22 '25 at 09:54

1 Answers1

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Serre's How to use finite fields for problems concerning infinite fields has some nice examples. Here are the two he starts the paper with:

Theorem 1.1: Let $\sigma : \mathbb{C}^n \to \mathbb{C}^n$ be a polynomial automorphism satisfying $\sigma^2 = 1$. Then $\sigma$ has a fixed point.

Theorem 1.2: More generally, let $P$ be a finite $p$-group for some prime $p$ and let $\pi : P \to \text{Aut}(\mathbb{C}^n)$ be an action of $P$ on $\mathbb{C}^n$. Then $P$ has a fixed point.

The proof is by reduction to the case of a finite field! I will just reproduce it more or less exactly:

Proof. We prove Theorem 1.2. First observe that the corresponding statement is true over a finite field $\mathbb{F}_q$ where $p \nmid q$, since $\mathbb{F}_q^n$ has $q^n$ elements, which is not divisible by $p$. So in this case the result follows from the $p$-group fixed point theorem (a finite $p$-group acting on a finite set of size not divisible by $p$ has a fixed point).

Next, let $\pi$ be an action of $P$ on $\mathbb{C}^n$ by polynomial automorphisms. Suppose by contradiction that the action of $P$ does not have a fixed point. Write $\pi_i(g)$ for the $i^{th}$ coefficient of $\pi(g) : \mathbb{C}^n \to \mathbb{C}^n$. Then the system of polynomial equations

$$x_i - \pi_i(g), 1 \le i \le n, g \in P$$

does not have a solution over $\mathbb{C}$. By the Nullstellensatz, it follows that these polynomials generate the unit ideal in $\mathbb{C}[x_1, \dots x_n]$, hence that there exist polynomials $Q_i(g)$ such that

$$\sum_{i, g} (x_i - \pi_i(g)) Q_i(g) = 1.$$

Now we employ "spreading out": there are only finitely many polynomials involved here with finitely many coefficients, so the coefficients of the polynomials $\pi_i(g)$ and $Q_i(g)$ generate a finitely generated subring $R \subset \mathbb{C}$ of $\mathbb{C}$, to which we can also add $\frac{1}{p}$. By Zariski's lemma, every maximal ideal $m$ of $R$ has the property that $R/m$ is a finite field $\mathbb{F}_q$, and since $\frac{1}{p} \in R$, $p \nmid q$. So reducing the polynomials $\pi_i(g), Q_i(g) \bmod m$ we conclude that the induced action of $P$ on $\mathbb{F}_q^n$ also has no fixed points; contradiction. $\Box$

(The use of contradiction should be removable but I'm not sure what the cleanest way to do it is; we could use ultraproducts but that would lose the scheme theory flavor.)

The point (as I understand it) is not so much that this is a useful result but to demonstrate spreading out as a technique. Of course this doesn't use the full strength of scheme theory - only affine schemes are needed and there are no nilpotents - but in order to reduce from $\mathbb{C}$ to a finite field we must work over a base ring $R$ that is not a field, so that it admits morphisms to both $\mathbb{C}$ and a finite field; so this argument cannot be performed solely in the language of varieties, even though the conclusion of the theorem is stated over $\mathbb{C}$ (which can be replaced by any algebraically closed field of characteristic $\neq p$).


I'm not going to be able to find this, but Allen Knutson made the point once (edit: here on Burt Totaro's blog, and also here in more detail on MO) that schemes generalize the classical theory of affine varieties in three different directions:

  • Not-necessarily-affine,
  • Working over a base that is not a field, e.g. $\mathbb{Z}$,
  • Allowing nilpotents.

Each of these can be motivated separately and any given application may not require all of them. In this case we only needed the second one. Personally I have managed to completely avoid the theory of non-affine schemes but I find affine schemes very conceptually useful for organizing things, e.g. thinking about the functor of points of the affine group scheme $GL_n$, which is relevant to questions like "what is the determinant, really?"

Qiaochu Yuan
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  • these are nice ideas! The connection to logic is quite strong though, and so unfortunately the scheme story is not as compelling to me as the logic story. In my post I added discussion of Matt E's sketch of finiteness of rational points on a certain elliptic curve that does use schemes (but is difficult), and also a counting points mod-p question that does not seem to use schemes, but still significant AG ideas. Might there be any questions of that sort familiar to you? – D.R. Mar 18 '25 at 20:09
  • @D.R.: offhand I think those are better examples than the ones I know! There is of course stuff like the Hasse-Weil bound, the Eichler-Shimura relation, and the Weil conjectures, but I'm not familiar enough with the details to know how to strike the right balance between accessibility and "really using scheme theory" with any of those. – Qiaochu Yuan Mar 18 '25 at 20:32