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A random chord is defined as a chord that connects two independent uniformly random points on (the circumference of) a circle.

If three random chords in a unit circle form a triangle inside the circle, what is the expected perimeter of the triangle?

enter image description here

A simulation suggests that the answer is $6/5$, surprisingly rational. (The expected area of the triangle doesn't seem to be rational.)

My attempt

Choose five independent uniformly random real numbers between $0$ and $2\pi$. Call them, in increasing order, $\theta_1,\theta_2,\theta_3,\theta_4,\theta_5$.

Draw six points on the unit circle:

$P_0\space(1,0)$
$P_1\space(\cos\theta_1,\sin\theta_1)$
$P_2\space(\cos\theta_2,\sin\theta_2)$
$P_3\space(\cos\theta_3,\sin\theta_3)$
$P_4\space(\cos\theta_4,\sin\theta_4)$
$P_5\space(\cos\theta_5,\sin\theta_5)$

Pair up the points so that the resulting chords form a triangle inside the circle: $P_0 P_3,\space P_1 P_4,\space P_2 P_5$.

We can express the perimeter of the triangle in terms of $\theta_1,\theta_2,\theta_3,\theta_4,\theta_5$. Then a quintiple integral involving order statistics should give us the expected perimeter, but this approach seems extremely difficult. Given that the presumable answer, $6/5$, is rather simple, it seems like there should be a more elegant approach.

Context

I am interested in "random triangles" that have elegant expectations and probabilities. The triangle in this question seems to be such a triangle (the probability that it contains the circle's centre is $1/16$). Another such random triangle is the "happy triangle".

Dan
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  • I am not sure what you claim - assuming the perimeter of the triangle is 6/5 than drawing with the red chord moved a little further from the center increases the perimeter. I do not see how you limit this action based on your question. – Moti Oct 08 '24 at 04:17
  • @Moti Draw three random chords (where "random chord" is defined in the question). Do this $n$ times. Now consider all the times when the three random chords form a triangle inside the circle. I'm claiming that the arithmetic mean of the perimeters of those triangles approaches $6/5$ as $n\to\infty$. – Dan Oct 08 '24 at 04:32

2 Answers2

2

Self-answering.

At first my simulation had $3\times 10^6$ triangles and yielded a mean perimeter of $1.19979$. (I'm using Excel for my simulations.)

Now I have simulated $2\times 10^7$ triangles, yielding a mean perimeter of $1.19940$. I am fairly confident that the expected perimeter is strictly between $1.199$ and $1.2$.

I thought about deleting the question, but decided to leave it up, in case anyone is interested in the exact value. After all, this triangle is a fairly natural geometric construction with at least one elegant property (the probability that it contains the circle's centre is $1/16$, as mentioned in the question), and it seems that this triangle has not been studied much here at MSE.

Dan
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  • 2
    I'll try to say something to the question, it can be reduced relatively easy to computing some double integrals (coming from triple integrals), or at least their quotient. One of them is like$$ \int_0^1 \frac{dx}{\sqrt{1-x^2}} \int_0^x \frac{dy}{\sqrt{1-y^2}}\cdot\Big(\ \arcsin x - \arcsin(x-y)\ \Big)\ .$$The other one must be split in some terms, roughly it involve squares of the arcsin instead of the arcsin, and there was a posted integral with such an $\arccos^2$ some days ago, so there may be some chance... But right now i am getting an integration barrier... Please let it live. – dan_fulea Oct 08 '24 at 13:34
  • @dan_fulea Interesting. Sure, I'll let it live. (Here is that integral with $\arccos^2$, for anyone interested.) – Dan Oct 08 '24 at 13:38
1

Since my conditional average is different, or very possibly i misunderstood the question, here is a first (partial) answer that numerically searches for a value. We model, write a formula for the mean perimeter $p$, and evaluate numerically. The result is more than four, so there must be a mismatch in the modelling.


Let $\odot$ be the unit circle. For a point $P$ on $\odot$ let $\theta(P)$ be the number in $[0,2\pi)$ with $P=\exp i\theta(P)$. Let now $A,A';B,B';C,C'$ be three pairs of (independent) points in $\odot^6$. Then we want to compute the number, a conditional probability w.r.t the event $E$ below: $$ p = \Bbb E\Bigg[\ AA'+BB'+CC'\ \Bigg|\ \underbrace{2\max(AA',BB',CC')\le AA'+BB'+CC'}_{=E}\ \Bigg]\ . $$ Since there is an obvious rotational symmetry, we may and do assume that the points $A',B',C'$ are all equal to $\exp i0=1$. Denote this reference point by $R=1$. Exactly one of the sides $AA', BB',CC'$ is maximal with positive probability. Then $E$ splits as $E_A\cup E_B\cup E_C$, where $E_A$ the portion where $AA'$ is maximal, and we similarly introduce notations $E_B$ and $E_C$. Then by symmetry we may restrict to the $E_A$ piece, $$ p= 3\Bbb E\Bigg[\ AA'+BB'+CC'\ \Bigg|\ \underbrace{BB',\;CC'\le AA' \text{ and }AA'\le BB'+CC'}_{=E_A}\ \Bigg]\ . $$


We use now the following model $\Omega$ for the probabaility space. The point $A$ is of the shape $\exp 2is$ with $s\in[0,2\pi]$. But points reflected w.r.t. the $Ox$-axis have the same distance, so by symmetry we may and do assume that $s\in [0,\pi]$. In the same manner, we parametrize $B,C$ as $\exp 2it$ and $\exp 2 iu$. The segments $AA'=RA$, $BB'=RB$, $CC'=RC$ are then respectively $2\sin s$, $2\sin t$, $2\sin u$. There is one more symmetry we can use to make later computations simpler. One of $t,u$ is smaller, we assume $0\le u\le t$. $$ \begin{aligned} \Omega &= \{\ (s,t,u)\in[0,\pi/2]^3\ |\ 0\le u\le t\le s\le \pi/2\ \}\ ,\\ E_A &=\{\ (s,t,u)\in[0,\pi/2]^3\ |\ 0\le u\le t\le s\ ,\ \sin s\le \sin u+\sin t\ \}\ . \end{aligned} $$ A picture for $A,B,C$:

mathematics stackexchange problem 4981234

The measure on $\Omega$ is (a normed version of) $ds\; dt\; du$, which corresponds to taking $A,B,C$ uniformly on the radar. We consider the function $$ f(s,t,u)=2(\sin s+\sin t+\sin u)\ , $$ and the probability to be computed is: $$ p=\frac {\displaystyle \iiint_{E_A}f(s,t,u)\; ds\;dt\; du} {\displaystyle \iiint_{E_A}1\; ds\;dt\; du} \ . $$


We change variables, use $x,y,z\in[0,1]$ for $\sin s,\sin t,\sin u$. Then $s=\arcsin x$, $ds=dx/\sqrt{1-x^2}$, and similar for $dt,du$.

So we have to compute on the region $D\subset [0,1]^3$ given by $0\le z\le y\le x\le\min(1,y+z)$ the following: $$ p= \frac {\displaystyle \iiint_D 2(x+y+z)\; \frac{dx}{\sqrt{1-x^2}}\; \frac{dy}{\sqrt{1-y^2}}\; \frac{dz}{\sqrt{1-z^2}} } {\displaystyle \iiint_D \frac{dx}{\sqrt{1-x^2}}\; \frac{dy}{\sqrt{1-y^2}}\; \frac{dz}{\sqrt{1-z^2}} } \ . $$


Wolfram alpha delivers the values

The quotient is roughly $13/3$, a number bigger four...


Let $(x,y,z)$ be in $D$. So $x\in[0,1]$. Because of $x\le y+z\le y+y=2y$, $y$ ranges between $x/2$ and $x$. Then $z$ is constrained to run betweeen $x-y$ and $y$. We can integrate w.r.t. $z$, and obtain a possibly simpler formula:

$$ p= \frac {\displaystyle \int_0^1 \frac{dx}{\sqrt{1-x^2}} \int_{x/2}^x\frac{dy}{\sqrt{1-y^2}} \begin{pmatrix} 2(x+y)(\arcsin x-\arcsin(x-y) \\ +2\left( \sqrt{1- (x-y)^2}-\sqrt{1-y^2}\right) \end{pmatrix} } {\displaystyle \int_0^1 \frac{dx}{\sqrt{1-x^2}} \int_{x/2}^x\frac{dy}{\sqrt{1-y^2}} (\arcsin x-\arcsin(x-y))}\ . $$ We can integrate w.r.t. $z\in[y-x,y]$ first. Then w.r.t. $y\in[x/2,x]$. And finally w.r.t. $x\in [0,1]$. Then pari/gp confirms the above results:

? intnum(x=0,1, intnum(y=x/2, x, 1/sqrt(1-x^2)/sqrt(1-y^2) * (asin(y) - asin(x-y))))
%10 = 0.41262741938920412841487820893180718042

? {intnum(x=0,1, intnum(y=x/2, x, 1/sqrt(1-x^2)/sqrt(1-y^2) * ( 2(x+y)(asin(y) - asin(x-y)) + 2*(-sqrt(1-y^2) + sqrt(1 - (x-y)^2)) )))} %11 = 1.7875657866180001900026538928071722581

? %11 / %10 %12 = 4.3321546330199344360575654063388233913

I have to submit, and come back with an edit (or delete) if i misunderstood completely the situation.

dan_fulea
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  • This is an old post that i started long time ago, and wanted to finish it with exact values of the integrals involved. Since exact values are hard to find, here is a numerical decision immediately after writing down the formula for the average perimeter $p$. – dan_fulea Nov 26 '24 at 01:05