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Let $f : \mathbb{Z}_p\to \mathbb{Z}_q$, where $\mathbb{Z}_p$ ($\mathbb{Z}_q$) are the $p$-adics ($q$-adics) for $p\neq q$. I have encountered the class of all $f$ satisfying

\begin{equation}\tag{1}\label{eq:rising-continuity} \forall x\in\mathbb{Z}_p, f(x) = \lim_{n\to\infty}f(x\bmod p^n) \end{equation} in conversation with someone. Is this some previously-known notion?

For the case of codomain $\mathbb{R}$, I asked this question here, and was told that it is standard continuity, but that the situation may be more nuanced in the case I have described, e.g. the claim is that Eq.$~\eqref{eq:rising-continuity}$ is a relaxation of continuity.

Has this relaxation occurred before? Is it a relaxation, or is it the "standard" notion of continuity one would expect for functions $f : \mathbb{Z}_p\to\mathbb{Z}_q$ (similarly to the case of codomain $\mathbb{R}$).

Also, here $x\bmod p^n$ means view $x = \sum_{i = 0}^\infty x_i p^i$, and "truncate" it to $\sum_{i = 0}^{k-1}x_ip^i$.

  • This is still just continuity, as far as I can tell. The proof from the previous question is not specific to $\mathbb{R}$ and works with target any metric space. – Qiaochu Yuan Jul 10 '24 at 22:22
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    @QiaochuYuan the person I'm talking to claims it is not, via the example of the function $f: \mathbb{Z}p\to \mathbb{Z}_q$, where $f(x) = q^{d(x)}$, where $d(x)\in\mathbb{N}\cup{\infty}$ is the number of non-zero $p$-adic digits in $x = \sum{i\geq 0}x_i p^i$. The claim is that as $f(x)$ is zero on $\mathbb{Z}_p \setminus \mathbb{N}$ (a dense set), if $f$ were continuous, it would be zero everywhere on $\mathbb{Z}_p$, which it evidently is not. – Mark Schultz-Wu Jul 10 '24 at 22:31
  • Huh. Well, now I'm very confused. – Qiaochu Yuan Jul 10 '24 at 23:05
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    Okay, I think my previous argument just doesn't work at all and my claim that this was equivalent to $p$-adic continuity was also false for $\mathbb{R}$. My apologies! – Qiaochu Yuan Jul 10 '24 at 23:28
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    @Torsten: it's defined in the last sentence of the question. – Qiaochu Yuan Jul 11 '24 at 21:09
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    @QiaochuYuan My bad, sorry. I could pedantically point out this "map" depends on the choice of representatives / what coefficients $c_i$ are allowed. The tacit assumption for the counterexample was to use the standard ${0, ..., p-1}$. The map changes but runs into equivalent problems for other choices. I retract my earlier comment but still think the fact that this "map" is somehow "not natural" is connected to the issue that this criterion does not catch full continuity. – Torsten Schoeneberg Jul 11 '24 at 21:25
  • @Torsten: yes, I think I didn't properly appreciate that before, and I think you're right about the "not naturalness." Very instructive counterexample! – Qiaochu Yuan Jul 12 '24 at 06:30
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    @QiaochuYuan: I have thought more about this and collected my thoughts so far in an answer. Would appreciate your thoughts on that. – Torsten Schoeneberg Aug 16 '24 at 17:27

1 Answers1

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Short answer:

This condition is weaker than continuity, and as stated it is highly dependent on a (hidden) choice: It is similar to checking continuity "only along a certain path". If one demands it to be true for all such choices, one recovers continuity. It might be interesting to investigate: For how many choices does one have to impose this condition to ensure "full" continuity?

Long answer:

For each $k=0,1,2, \dots$ let $C_k$ be a set of coefficients, i.e. $p$ elements in $\mathbb Z_p$ whose residues mod $p$ make up $\mathbb Z_p/(p)$.

For a fixed sequence of coefficient sets $\mathbf C:= (C_k)_k$, each $x\in \mathbb Z_p$ can be written as $\sum_0^\infty c_k(x) p^k$, where each $c_k(x) \in C_k$ is uniquely determined by $x$.

The most “standard” choice is $C_k =\{0,1, \dots p-1\}$ for all $k$, let's call this $\mathbf C_{st}$. Another one commonly used are the Teichmüller representatives, and again "the same" for all $k$. But the uniqueness statement above still holds if we fix different coefficients for each $k$.

For each fixed $\mathbf C = (C_k)_k$, one has the truncation maps $tr_\mathbf C^n : \mathbb Z_p \rightarrow \mathbb Z_p$, $x \mapsto \sum_{k=0}^n c_k(x) p^k$.

Let $D$ be any metric space, and let's call a map $f:\mathbb Z_p \rightarrow D$ weakly $\mathbf C$-continuous at $x$ if

$$f(x) = \lim_{n\to \infty} f(tr_{\mathbf{C}}^n(x))$$

Your condition is weak $\mathbf C_{st}$-continuity.

Observation 1: If $f$ is continuous at $x$, then it is weakly $\mathbf{C}$-continuous at $x$ for all $\mathbf{C}$.

Example 1: A function which is weakly $\mathbf C_{st}$-continuous everywhere, but continuous only at $x\neq 0$: $$f(x)= \begin{cases} 0 \text{ if } x \neq 0 \\1 \text{ if } x=0 \end{cases}$$

(where $1$ and $0$ can be replaced by any two different values in our codomain $D$ which, to avoid trivialities, contains more than one element). More generally, if you choose finitely many natural numbers $a_1, ..., a_k \in \mathbb N$, you can define an $f$ to have arbitrary values at those, while being (another) constant on $\mathbb Z_p \setminus \{a_1, ..., a_k\}$, and such $f$ is still weakly $\mathbf C_{st}$-continuous everywhere, but continuous only on $\mathbb Z_p \setminus \{a_1, ..., a_k\}$.

Example 2: A function which is weakly $\mathbf C_{st}$-continuous everywhere, but continuous only on $\mathbb Z_p \setminus \mathbb N$. (You gave this example in a comment, with codomain $\mathbb Z_q$, but as Qiaochu Yuan has noted, analogous constructions work e.g. for $D= \mathbb R$. This is a "smoothened" upgrade of example 1.)

$$f(x) = \begin{cases} 0 \text{ if } x \notin \mathbb N \\ q^{d_{st}(x)} \text{ else,} \end{cases} $$ where $d_{st}(x)$ is the number of nonzero $c_k(x)$ in the $\mathbf C_{st}$-expansion of $x$.


It seems like the natural numbers stand out here. They should not, because we do not do any arithmetic. They do because they are special with respect to the choice of coefficients $\mathbf C_{st}$: They are the ones which are "eventually stable under truncation". For other choices, one finds analogous constructions with analogous sets:

Terminology: For given $\mathbf C$, let $Fin(\mathbf{C}) \subset \mathbb Z_p$ be the set of elements $x\in \mathbb Z_p$ such that there is $n$ such that $x = tr_{\mathbf{C}}^m(x)$ for all $m\ge n$. For $\mathbf C$ where all $C_k$ contain $0$, these are exactly those $x$ that can be written as finite sums $\sum_{k=0}^m c_k(x) p^k$. For example $Fin(\mathbf C_{st}) = \mathbb N$.

Observation 2: For given $\mathbf C$, every (!) $f$ is weakly $\mathbf C$-continuous at all $x \in Fin(\mathbf C)$.

Observation 3: The function in example 1 is weakly $\mathbf{C}$-continuous for every $\mathbf{C} = (C_k)_k$ such that $0$ is contained in all $C_k$. (A condition which is often imposed on coefficient systems. Note the function is not $(C_k)_k$-continuous if e.g. all $C_k$ contain $p$ and $-1$.)

Example 3: A $\mathbf C$ (with all $C_k$ "the same") such that the function in example 2 is not weakly $\mathbf{C}$-continuous e.g. at $x=1$.

Let $p=2$ and $\mathbf C = (C_k)_k$ with $C_k = \{0,3\}$ for all $k$. We have $c_k(1) = \begin{cases} 3 \text{ if } k= 0,1,3,5,7, ... \\ 0 \text{ if } k=2,4,6,8,... \end{cases}$

In particular, $tr_\mathbf{C}^{2n-1}(1) = tr_\mathbf{C}^{2n}(1) = 1+2^{2n+1}$ for all $n \ge 1$.

But that means $d_{st}(tr_{\mathbf{C}}(1)) = 2$ for $n \ge 1$, while obviously $d_{st}(1)=1$, so $q^{d_{st}}$ is not $\mathbf{C}$-continuous at $x=1$.


Upshot: The function cooked up from $d_{st}$ in example 2 is weakly $\mathbf C_{st}$-continuous because it relies on the same "standard" coefficient choice. Analogous functions $d_{\mathbf C}$, which count nonzero coefficients in $\mathbf C$-expansions, would give rise to examples analogous to example 2 which are weakly $\mathbf C$-continuous everywhere albeit not continuous on $\mathbb Z_p \setminus Fin(\mathbf C)$. But as example 3 shows, these have no reason to be weakly $\mathbf C'$-continuous for a different choice $\mathbf C'$.

I think of this as checking continuity only along "a very special path": When choosing $\mathbf C$, you choose to check if $f$ is continuous at $x$ when $x$ gets approximated by elements of $Fin(\mathbf C)$, but not "from other directions".

But if one considers all possible choices, one recovers full continuity:

Observation 4: Let $f:\mathbb Z_p \rightarrow D$ and $x \in \mathbb Z_p$ be given. If $f$ is weakly $\mathbf{C}$-continuous at $x$ for all $\mathbf C$, then $f$ is continuous at $x$.

Proof: Let $x_0, x_1, x_2, ...$ be an arbitrary but fixed sequence converging to $x$. We need to show $\lim_{n\to \infty} f(x_n) =f(x)$. The idea is to construct a $\mathbf C = (C_k)_k$ such that the given sequence $(x_n)_n$ (or a big enough part of it) is contained in $Fin(\mathbf C)$. More precisely, I claim we can find a subsequence $x_{n_k}$ and coefficient sets $C_k$ such that $tr_{\mathbf C}^k(x) = x_{n_k}$ for all $k$. In fact, we choose both recursively via the following properties:

  • $y_{n_0} := y_0 \in C_0$

  • Choose $n_{k+1}$ such that $v_p(x_{n_{k+1}}-x_{n_k}) > k$ for $k \ge 0$

  • Choose $C_{k+1}$ such that $\dfrac{x_{n_{k+1}}-x_{n_k}}{p^{k+1}} \in C_{k+1}$ for $k \ge 0$

Now as wanted, $tr_{\mathbf C}^k(x) = x_{n_k}$ for all $k$, so that $f$ being weakly $\mathbf{C}$-continuous at $x$ means that $\lim_{k\to \infty} f(x_{n_k}) = f(x)$.

This argument only relies on $x_n \to x$, so it can be applied to any subsequence of $x_n$ as well. Hence the sequence $(f(x_n))_n$ (in the metric codomain $D$) has the property that each of its subsequences has another subsequence that converges to $f(x)$. This implies (cf. 1) that $f(x_n)$ itself converges to $f(x)$, q.e.d.


Open question: For $f$ to be continuous at $x$, is it sufficient that $f$ is weakly $\mathbf{C}$-continuous at $x$ for every "constant" $\mathbf{C}$, i.e. where all coefficients come from the same set $C_0=C_1=C_2=\dots$? -- The construction in the proof of observation 4 generally will give different $C_k$ for each $k$. But so far I see no example of an $f$ that has a discontinuity at an $x$ which cannot be "detected" by some constant $\mathbf C$ (at that specific $x$).