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I took the math subject GRE in 2010, two years before I got my bachelor's degree. I hadn't taken Complex Variables or Topology or even Linear Algebra. Right before the exam, I quit school for the fourth time. I had not prepared at all, I was depressed with suicidal tendencies, and I stopped working every time the proctor walked by.

I got a 680 (58th percentile).

My school told me they were disappointed and hoped I would do better, but I got into their Ph. D. program anyway because they didn't even require subject GRE scores (definitely not an Ivy League school).

So, seven years later, I have a master's degree. My life is stable. I got a Ph. D. level pass on the qualifying exams. I definitely know a lot more math. I've published a paper proving something conjectured in another paper. I wanted to take the math subject GRE again to prove I could do better. I spent months preparing. I went over all the material for hours a day. I did tons of exercises. I took timed practice exams, acing the old, easy tests, and getting 90+ percentile scores on the rescaled practice tests (mostly arithmetic errors), which I guess are still easy.

Scores just came in this morning: 720 (64th percentile).

So, how can my proficiency in Mathematics increase so much, while my math subject GRE score has increased so little? What exactly is the math subject GRE exam measuring? And most importantly, how do I get it?

YuiTo Cheng
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    it's mostly multivariate calculus and then some somewhat obscure but elementary things picked from various fields: number theory, topology, probability, partial differential equations, abstract algebra, etc. You can spend your whole life mastering a very particular field, say frames for Hilbert spaces and their applications, or shallow water waves, or elliptic curves, and never progress past some 'low' percentile in the subject test. It is a test which covers a broad swath of material that most people only need to know part of. – Jürgen Sukumaran Oct 13 '17 at 12:48
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    Not an answer since I don't know anything about that exam. My question: why bother? You seem to be on track to doing real mathematics at a level appropriate for you. Maybe if you'd spent that exam preparation time on your research you'd have published another paper or two. – Ethan Bolker Oct 13 '17 at 12:48
  • @EthanBolker there is nothing wrong with wanting to achieve a goal you set for yourself, i.e. in this case the OP wanted to do well to prove to themselves that they could do better (stated in the post). Life is not just about writing papers, you could use the same argument you just made to say, "why would any mathematician want to do X?" where X does not contribute to their research. – Jürgen Sukumaran Oct 13 '17 at 12:50
  • @TonyS.F. I think X is something mathematical. So why would someone do something mathematical that does not contribute to that person's mathematical research if that person does mathematical research for a living? – BCLC Aug 28 '18 at 06:46
  • @BCLC it's a bit of a silly question in my opinion. Why do people who aren't professional pianists play the piano? Why do people who aren't professional artists paint in their spare time? Why do people train to run a marathon if they aren't professional athletes? They do it because they like it. – Jürgen Sukumaran Aug 30 '18 at 12:21
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    @TonyS.F. Why isn't the analogy instead 'Why do people who are professional pianists do something piano related that doesn't help towards improving their professional career in piano?' ? It would be like a professional mathematician seeing if they can ace a secondary maths exam final because they scored low in their secondary maths exam final. – BCLC Aug 30 '18 at 12:23
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    @BCLC the generality of allowing non professional things encompasses the case when the hobby is slightly related to the profession. Sure, if it makes it more clear for you then consider the question "Why do some professional pianists learn about woodwork and carpentry and piano making?". The answer is still the same, though. – Jürgen Sukumaran Aug 30 '18 at 12:31
  • @TonyS.F. Ah ok I've got it. I think the analogy should be: 'Why do people who are professional pianists do something piano related that doesn't help towards improving their professional career in piano when there is a large opportunity cost involved?' or something. I mean, OP either took time out of work or recreational time to do the GRE again. If work, then this does not help OP's maths research goals (*). If recreation, I don't think this is recreation. This seems to be bitterness, low self-love or people pleasing. Sure if this was some sudoku puzzle or... – BCLC Aug 30 '18 at 12:48
  • @TonyS.F. ...or retrying some problems in some old exam you failed when you were in undergrad for a few minutes or even up to an hour fine, but the whole GRE again? That's like time for registration + travel time + doing exam. That's, what, 5-7 hours? OP could've just done an old GRE instead, which also would've been too time consuming, but at least it would've been only 3-4 hours. / (*) Oh and about OP's maths research goals, well this could've been part of it: like to really show how much the maths GRE isn't dependent/correlated on grad studies. Eh, for me I'm kinda glad OP did it because – BCLC Aug 30 '18 at 12:51
  • @TonyS.F. it really helps me see how much the GRE isn't or shouldn't be that important. I did link this to my GRE question. Then again, I have been reading online a lot like GRE is only a part of the application, research interest match is more important, GRE is less relevant for applied maths PhDs, etc. So, it kinda benefits me but only kinda. Meanwhile how much did it cost OP? And it's not like it was part of some research project or experiment about the GRE. If it was, then perhaps it could've been more beneficial to more people or be less costly (since it would count towards work hours). – BCLC Aug 30 '18 at 12:54
  • @EthanBolker What if taking the GRE again was part of some paper? (see previous comments please) – BCLC Aug 30 '18 at 12:55
  • @BCLC it doesn't matter if you think it's recreation or not; it's completely irrelevant. It's up to the person to decide what they find recreational. Your assumption that it's bitterness, low self-love, or people pleasing is hilarious and out of left field, totaly armchair psychology. It doesn't matter how much it cost OP, not everyone lives their life like a video game RPG that they are trying to minimax. Some people prefer to enjoy life and for them that might mean spending 5-7 hours on the GRE, that's their prerogative and it's nonsensical for you to judge them for it or say they shouldn't. – Jürgen Sukumaran Aug 30 '18 at 13:45
  • @TonyS.F. I suppose it makes sense for a maths PhD graduate to go back to university and re-do their whole undergraduate degree for the sake of getting honours while they didn't get honours as an undergrad? – BCLC Aug 30 '18 at 15:17
  • @TSF Actually I kinda figure this is fake somehow. idk. – BCLC Dec 01 '20 at 16:35
  • @EthanBolker Actually I kinda figure this is fake somehow. idk. – BCLC Dec 01 '20 at 16:35
  • @BCLC It makes sense for them to go back do their degree if that's what they want to do and if they want to have honours that badly. Most people would say that's too much time to invest just to get honours for a degree they already have; the existence of people who disagree and who would want to go back doesn't change anything. Those people aren't wrong for having their own will to do it. – Jürgen Sukumaran Dec 01 '20 at 16:40
  • @BCLC no, it's not fake. I quit graduate school about a year after I got my master's and went to a different state to administer morphine to my dying father while he was on hospice care. After he died, I moved to that state (free house). I needed to take GREs again to apply to the local university, but I knew I would never get in because I'm a grumpy student who was incredibly vocal about how I despised the education system. I had a letter of recommendation that said I was the best student they ever taught but a terrible GPA, and the local university is considered too good. –  Dec 10 '20 at 14:29
  • @user144527 rule 32? but if true, then: that really sucks. condolences. – BCLC Dec 10 '20 at 18:11
  • @user144527 wait did your 2nd gre have right minus wrong? or was it already after the right minus wrong was removed? – BCLC Dec 10 '20 at 18:19
  • @user144527 wait there's something up here. you say 'I needed to take GREs again to apply to the local university' but then in the post you say 'I wanted to take the math subject GRE again to prove I could do better'. so which is it? you NEED to take it to apply? or you WANT to take it to to prove something to yourself? – BCLC Dec 10 '20 at 18:21
  • @TSF updating you by tagging you – BCLC Dec 10 '20 at 18:23
  • I'm uninterested in whether or not it's fake, my argument stands whether someone NEEDS to take the test or just WANTS to. What's a waste of time is subjective. – Jürgen Sukumaran Dec 10 '20 at 18:41
  • @TSF i know you're not necessarily interested. i'm informing you more for me than for you. lol. – BCLC Dec 11 '20 at 09:16
  • @BCLC both. I needed to take it to apply. I wanted to take it to do better. Both are true. I applied even though I knew I wouldn't get in (my score waived the application fee, so why not apply). I did not take it to apply; I applied because I took it, and it was free. Is that clear? –  Dec 15 '20 at 01:07
  • @user144527 is this correct: you took it prove something to yourself and you want to apply to some, but not any particular, maths graduate programme. then since your score is good enough to waive application fee of some particular maths graduate programme, you decided to apply for this particular maths graduate programme? – BCLC Dec 15 '20 at 12:30
  • @user144527 also rule 32? eh unless you wanna keep yourself anonymous and all that. but i figured there would be a way to satisfy rule 32 while preserving (most) anonymity – BCLC Dec 15 '20 at 12:30
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    @BCLC no, I did not take it to apply to mathematics programs. I absolutely despise the university system in this country (USA). When I apply to the program, I just criticize them for failing to teach and elitist gatekeeping. There is never any intention to actually attend. Also, I don't know what rule 32 is. –  Dec 15 '20 at 16:26
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    @BCLC is rule 32 just "pics or it didn't happen?" I don't really care about anonymity. I don't know why someone would lie about something like this, though. It seems weird that you think it's fake. Which part do you want to see? My master's degree? My publication? My father's death certificate? Weird. But these are public records, so why should I mind sharing? –  Dec 15 '20 at 16:35
  • @user144527 idk. well thanks for sharing. btw what does 'Ph. D. level pass on the qualifying exams. ' ? is this like ABD? or what? – BCLC Dec 16 '20 at 07:29
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    @BCLC At my school, there were three grades you could receive on a qualifying exam: fail, master's pass, or Ph. D. pass. If you failed any one qualifying exam three times, you were kicked out of the program (technically, it was two times, but you could petition for a third, so it was effectively three). If you received a Ph. D. level pass on every qualifying exam in at least one of the three tries, you were granted a master's degree and allowed to continue in the program to pursue your Ph. D. A master's level pass from each exam allowed you to receive your master's degree but not continue. –  Dec 16 '20 at 13:53
  • @user144527 oh nice. k i guess this isn't fake. i'm a n00b in all this lol. you rule. condolences again. – BCLC Dec 16 '20 at 14:16

2 Answers2

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I know this is an old question, and excuse me for what some might consider an overly pessimistic attitude, but:

The GRE is measuring your ability to take the GRE. ETS is a private institution whose interested in maintaining the nigh forced purchasing of their product. To quote a comment in this thread:

More bluntly, it's a self-perpetuating racket by ETS who makes a bloody fortune on useless testing and selling "preparation materials" to train the subjects of their supposedly valid testing methods. Deductive logic test: if the GRE is a measure of inherent qualities, then preparation should not significantly affect a subject's score.

Ⓐ True

Ⓑ False

Ⓒ Either way, ETS makes more money

Community
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AmagicalFishy
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  • AmagicalFishy, your post seems to refer to GRE general. Does your post refer also to GRE subject? – BCLC Aug 28 '18 at 06:48
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    @BCLC Yes, it does (unless there's some significant difference between the physics and mathematics subject tests, and other subject tests). – AmagicalFishy Aug 28 '18 at 13:18
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Please check your implicit assumptions. It is an assumption that any test score "measures" some objectively knowable quantity in a statistical sense. For example, the claim that "IQ" tests measure intelligence. At best, there is a positive correlation between such test scores and abilities that would be considered signs of intelligence. The best measure is behaving intelligently no matter what test scores indicate. The real question is "what do you want to do and why?" and only you can answer that for yourself. One good use of tests is what you did by taking practice tests and see where you are missing abilities. They can show where you can try do better.

If your goal is to increase your mathematics proficiency, then you are on the right path. Use the tests to highlight weaknesses, but don't mistake good test scores for good proficiency. They are only positively correlated. It all depends on the actual test. A bad test can be useless. Finally, don't mistake "school mathematics" for real mathematics. It is an easy mistake to make until you have a lot of experience with real mathematics.

Somos
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