Is there any problem in mathematics that is proved not independent of ZFC but the problem itself is not proved yet?
Is there any problem that is proved not independent of ZFC but the problem itself is not proved yet?
Asked
Active
Viewed 116 times
2
-
Look also at the "Linked" of the duplicate question, where you will find many other related questions. – Asaf Karagila Jul 16 '15 at 12:09
-
@AsafKaragila sorry, updated my question. seems the old question is misleading – Minghao Liu Jul 16 '15 at 12:18
-
2Given an integer $n$, the question of whether $n$ is prime is not independent of ZFC, but there are many such $n$ for which the question of primality has not been settled. – Gerry Myerson Jul 16 '15 at 12:21
-
@GerryMyerson I am enlightened! So should I just close the problem or you make it an answer... – Minghao Liu Jul 16 '15 at 12:23
-
For what it's worth, I do think this is a duplicate, of another question where the solutions where proposed in line of what @Gerry pointed out here. – Asaf Karagila Jul 16 '15 at 12:23
-
@GerryMyerson also we know that the primality is decidable, is there any problem satisfies the question and also is not decidable? – Minghao Liu Jul 16 '15 at 12:27
-
1What do you mean by "decidable" here? – Asaf Karagila Jul 16 '15 at 12:29
-
@GerryMyerson although in this case there exist algorithms to answer these questions, so it's just a matter of time for a given $n$ and it doesn't require any special methods of proof (they can greatly reduce the time though) – ljfa Jul 16 '15 at 12:37
-
@ljfa: So, you know what is the smallest prime after Graham's number? – Asaf Karagila Jul 16 '15 at 12:41
-
@AsafKaragila well no, but you'd just need to wait long enough... but yeah you're right as in it will never be solved this way in practice – ljfa Jul 16 '15 at 12:42
-
3@MinghaoLiu: Whenever you know that a given claim can be either proved or disproved by ZFC, there will always be an algorithmic way to figure out which is the case: Just search for a proof or a disproof in parallel, and sooner or later one of these searches will complete. – hmakholm left over Monica Jul 16 '15 at 13:57
-
"Proved not independent of ZFC" is unintelligible. – Rob Arthan Jul 16 '15 at 21:31
-
@RobArthan It may be oddly phrased, but it's not unintelligible: "proved not independent" just means "we have proved it is decidable in . . ." – Noah Schweber Jul 16 '15 at 23:31
1 Answers
4
I'll take the question to mean,
Is there any statement $S$ such that we can prove that $S$ is not independent of ZFC, but we have not yet been able to prove $S$, nor to refute $S$?
Any statement $S$ that can be settled by a finite computation, but by a computation that no one has carried out yet (or by a computation so large that no one is able to carry it out), will do. For example, the question of whether the Ramsey number $R(5,5)$ is 43. For another example, according to the most recent correspondence I have from Sam Wagstaff, who keeps track of this kind of thing, no one has been able to fully factor $2^{1207}-1$ (and when/as/if that number is factored, some other number will take its place).
Gerry Myerson
- 185,413